Mistake in TTT? (SPOILER WARNING)

[Zander]

I was watching The Two Towers on DVD and it occurred to me that something is not quite right. At one point, Treebeard dumps Pip and Merry at Gandalf's feet. Later in the film, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli encounter the wizard too. When Aragorn calls him "Gandalf", the wizard says something as if he hadn't heard the name in a long time and was recalling a long forgotten memory (actually from when he was Gandalf the Grey). This would imply that Pip and Merry hadn't called him by name. Why not? The two hobbits are surprised by a friend who they thought was dead and neither of them says his name?! Bizarre.

I can think of several scenarios how this might happen but none of them are at all likely.

Is there a formal explanantion for why this is? I checked the book, but it didn't help.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I had never thought about it... It happens very similarly in the book, we hear about it from Merry and Pippin later on, but we don't actually see their meeting. I think Gandalf was probably still not fully remembering his life as Gandalf the Grey until he spent some time with Aragorn & Co.

It's very likely the Gandalf the White had very little time for Merry and Pippin until after the fall of Isengard, only briefly seeing them, and thus not giving them the chance to remind him of himself, so to speak.

All this is pure conjecture. Perhaps Tolkien mentions his thoughts on this in his letters somewhere, but if so, I don't recall hearing about it...

 

[Ranger REG]

I was watching The Two Towers on DVD and it occurred to me that something is not quite right. At one point, Treebeard dumps Pip and Merry at Gandalf's feet. Later in the film, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli encounter the wizard too. When Aragorn calls him "Gandalf", the wizard says something as if he hadn't heard the name in a long time and was recalling a long forgotten memory (actually from when he was Gandalf the Grey). This would imply that Pip and Merry hadn't called him by name. Why not? The two hobbits are surprised by a friend who they thought was dead and neither of them says his name?! Bizarre.

"How Bizarre? How Bizarre?" Loved that music from New Zealand.

This is nothing compared to Pippin's near-miss with one of the Rohan horses' hooves. Notice his hands.

Is there a formal explanantion for why this is? I checked the book, but it didn't help.

We call them flubs. Not relating to the story but rather how the scenes are shot and then pieced together during post-production editing.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

This actually problem can be traced back even farther in the books. Upon Gandolf's return he first goes to look for the party at Lothlorien. Here he meets with Galadriel and discusses the situation. From there he continues on after learning the Fellowship left shortly before he arived. I know the elves refer to him as Mithrandir but even so he has had a chance to catch up on his life in Lothlorien. As for PJ, he was just following the scene pretty much exactly as Tolkien wrote it. There was no continuity problem because of PJ.

 

[barsoomcore]

Pip and Merry do not encounter Gandalf before Isengard. They almost hear about him being back from Treebeard:

(Treebeard said) "But you speak of Master Gandalf, as if he was in a story that had come to an end."

"Yes, we do," said Pippin sadly. "The story seems to be going on, but I am afraid Gandalf has fallen out of it."

"Hoo, come now!" said Treebeard. "Hoom, hm, ah well." He paused, looking long at the hobbits. "Hoom, ah, well I do not know what to say. Come now!"

And that's the last that appears to be said of the matter. The hobbits are very quickly too engrossed in Treebeard to recall Gandalf again, who they of course think is dead.

While Gandalf does indeed appear to have forgotten that name when Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn run into him in Fangorn, he clearly is not suffering from general amnesia. He recalls Legolas' name immediately, he knows about the hobbits, and that the three are searching for the little chaps.

Gandalf says clearly that he has NOT spoken with Treebeard since returning -- he says that he thinks he saw the Ent at a distance four days ago. So he remembers clearly enough to recognize Treebeard, which we can assume means much of his memory was returned four days ago.

So he recovered at Lothlorien, where he regained his memory but nobody mentioned to him that other people sometimes called him Gandalf. That doesn't seem very strange to me. When he encounters the three, he toys with them a bit in his Gandalf-y way, but clearly recognizes them on sight. When he hears the name by which he is also known, he recalls it, but obviously nobody has called him that since he returned. Which, given that the only people he's talked to are the elves of Lothlorien, is exactly what we should expect.

PJ introduces the continuity problem of having the hobbits encounter Gandalf, and presumably use that name (since they never call him Mithrandir), before he meets with Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas. It's not a huge problem, but it belongs entirely to Peter Jackson.

 

[thatdarncat]

But do the hobbits realize that it is Gandalf?

Remember, Treebeard tells them that he is taking them to see the white wizard. When Gandalf meets the three hunters, he is still very Saruman-ish. Is it not possible that Merry and Pippin, who thought that they were going to see Saurman, didn't realize that the blinding light in front of them was Gandalf?

 

[barsoomcore]

Yep, it's possible. So what do we reckon happened in that case? Treebeard dropped them off, they said, "Whoa. Blinding light. Old wizardy guy. Guess it's Saruman. Well, enough of that. Can we go now?"

I mean, okay, MAYBE it was something like that. Not sure that that solution makes PJ look any smarter, however.

 

[Zander]

But do the hobbits realize that it is Gandalf?

Remember, Treebeard tells them that he is taking them to see the white wizard. When Gandalf meets the three hunters, he is still very Saruman-ish. Is it not possible that Merry and Pippin, who thought that they were going to see Saurman, didn't realize that the blinding light in front of them was Gandalf?

I thought of that but it's not very plausible. Pip & Merry know that they're being taken to Saruman by the Uruk-Hai. When the two hobbits escape the half-orcs, they're captured by Treebeard who takes them to (who they believe is) Saruman - who lets them go! Saruman doesn't search them (for the ring), kill them or take them hostage, he just lets them run off with Treebeard. It doesn't tally.

BTW, thatdarncat, I didn't mean for the above to sound like a flame. It's a very good suggestion and I welcome any others you may have.

 

[mmu1]

I've always viewed it as Gandalf simply either a)Being reminded once again about all he went through, and going weird for a moment b)Pulling their leg a little bit for threatening to attack him and thinking he was Saruman.

He never struck me as seriosuly trying to remember what his name used to be.

 

[Gnarlo]

Yep, it's possible. So what do we reckon happened in that case? Treebeard dropped them off, they said, "Whoa. Blinding light. Old wizardy guy. Guess it's Saruman. Well, enough of that. Can we go now?"

I mean, okay, MAYBE it was something like that. Not sure that that solution makes PJ look any smarter, however.

That doesn't fit in with Treebeard's later "I told Gandalf I'd keep you safe, and safe is where I'll keep you" statement as he's carrying them along the next time you see the three of them, so I don't think they could have mistaken him for Saruman.