Monk - what do you like and dislike?

[jcfiala]

I received my copy of PHII in the mail last night, and immediately took a look at the feats. Interestingly enough, there's three of them there which explicitly say are available as replacement Bonus Feats at 2nd and 8th level. This is a really cool idea, and I thank the authors for putting them in there.

Firey Fist lets you spend a use of Stunning Fist to surround your hands and feet in flame, doing an additional 1d6 points of fire damage until the start of your next turn.. Plus, you gain an additional use of Stunning Fist each day. This ability subs for a 2nd level Bonus feat.

Firey Ki Defense lets you cover your body in flames for a use of Stunning Fist, doing 1d6 points of fire damage to anyone who strikes you with a melee attack until the start of your next turn. This substitutes for a bonus feat at 8th level, assuming they took Firey Fist.

Ki Blast lets you turn two daily uses of Stunning Fist into a ball of Ki energy, which you actually throw at someone, doing 3d6+wis modifier, as a ranged touch attack (force effect). You also gain another use of Stunning Fist, and can take this as your 8th level bonus feat.

The Combat Focus feats also fit the theme of a Monk, and generally are useful for them as well. I still say Monk needs BAB full, but anyone wanting to play a monk should have a look at these too.

 

[glass]

What TWF penalties? Being a monk special weapon, you can use it interchangeably with your unarmed strikes in a flurry, at no penalty. You threaten adjacent squares with your unarmed strikes, and 10'-away squares with the longspear.

OK fair enough, you were just talking about flurrying. I thought you were talking about threatening lots of squares to get lots of AoO with Combat Reflexes.


glass.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I says nothing of the sort. Its says that a monks unarmed strikes can be enhanced as though they were natural weapons and manufactured weapons. It has absolutely no bearing on any natural weapons the monk may also have.


glass.

As though they were weapons. Is that one weapon, or more than one?

There's one system for unarmed combat, another for natural attacks, a third for manufactured weapons - did they really need to write the monk so it breaks every other rule in the book?

 

[jcfiala]

As though they were weapons. Is that one weapon, or more than one?

There's one system for unarmed combat, another for natural attacks, a third for manufactured weapons - did they really need to write the monk so it breaks every other rule in the book?

Well, yes. After all, what's an ability but something that breaks a rule? But a good question is - did they have to break the rules so much? Possibly not.

 

[Klaus]

OK fair enough, you were just talking about flurrying. I thought you were talking about threatening lots of squares to get lots of AoO with Combat Reflexes.


glass.

Well, you can do that too. An AoO must be taken with a weapon you have in hand, you just happen to threaten different squares with different weapons (10' away with longspear and 5' away with unarmed strikes -- which aren't hampered by the longspear).

 

[Mad Mac]

Regarding the PHB 2 feats.

Fiery Fist is Great.

Fiery Ki Defense is completely useless. It has high-ish pre-reqs, lasts one round, does pitiful damage, and requires the monk to take hits...yeah, like that's a good idea.

Ki Blast is pretty cool. I just wish I had a way to up the damage more. Greater Ki Blast? Hmmm...

 

[jcfiala]

Regarding the PHB 2 feats.

Fiery Fist is Great.

Fiery Ki Defense is completely useless. It has high-ish pre-reqs, lasts one round, does pitiful damage, and requires the monk to take hits...yeah, like that's a good idea.

Ki Blast is pretty cool. I just wish I had a way to up the damage more. Greater Ki Blast? Hmmm...

You know, I'd probably houserule that Firey Ki Defense uses are also Firey Fists - not only do you deal the 1d6 damage when someone hits you, but you do the 1d6 damage when you hit them. That seems to work a lot better, to my mind. And I don't really worry so much about the prereqs - it's basically the prereqs for Firey Fist, plus Firey Fist.

Greater Ki Blast sounds good to me.

 

[Gizzard]

Good things about Monks:
1) Good saves.
2) Some good scouting abilities
3) Really good at beating up weak opponents.
4) Really good at running away.

Bad thing about Monks:
1) Very bad at beating up strong opponents.
2) Not enough other uses to party that party will forgive you for not beating up strong opponents.

Also (having played a Monk up to level 6 and DMed a party with level 12 Monk, Fighter and Paladin for our last campaign) I think that worrying about the power of a level 20 Monk is a mistake. You have to make it to level 20 somehow, without getting bored of being somewhat ineffective or getting killed off (by being somewhat ineffective) at lower levels.

The level 1-5 Monk sucked compared to the Barbarian and a TW Fighter due to 1) low damage output (low BAB, low +STR, 1d6 base dmg), 2) useless against DR or regeneration, 3) low HPs, 4) less mobility than Barbarian. The Monk was probably the most underpowered character at this level -- and the party included a Bard. :-(

The level 12 Monk lagged the Fighter in both AC and damage output, but at least a lot of his bonus abilities were becoming useful; exceptional mobility, good saves and the occassional D-Door. The Monk was in the middle of the pack in terms of usefulness here; but certainly not at the top end.

(Both worlds were high point buy, low magic, core book only. )

 

[glass]

As though they were weapons. Is that one weapon, or more than one?

Good question. *heads off to check SRD* Ah, here we go. Weapon, singular.

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

There's one system for unarmed combat, another for natural attacks, a third for manufactured weapons - did they really need to write the monk so it breaks every other rule in the book?

Actually, for the most part there are only two systems. Unarmed strikes are manufactured weapons in almost all ways.


glass.

 

[glass]

Well, you can do that too. An AoO must be taken with a weapon you have in hand, you just happen to threaten different squares with different weapons (10' away with longspear and 5' away with unarmed strikes -- which aren't hampered by the longspear).

You have to be wielding two weapons (you unarmed strikes and your spear) to threaten all the areas. If you are wielding two weapons, you take TWF penalties (you are 'fighting this way').

Not everyone agrees with this interpretation, but IMO it's pretty clear.


glass.