Monsters of the Multiverse: the death of eldritch blast?

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
I don't find a Xd10 force attack at 120 ft range to be complicated. Certainly, it's not for wizard analogs. Add it to the actions list and be done.
I think the point was that they wanted to distinguish the Warlock monster variants so they're not all just blasting Eldritch Blast every round but instead are interesting and distinct from each other. They wanted to make it easier for the DM to pick the most interesting option and not the default "the warlock blasts you again."
 

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Yaarel

Mind Mage
pain

The warlock is the one class which I consider to have enough customisation and uniqueness. The fact that subclass, pacts, and invocations are all different means that you can build warlocks in all sorts of crazy ways, rather than as the cookiecutter characters encouraged by certain other classes.

Just something which makes me even more convinced that 5.5e will be DnD: Babies Edition.
If almost every Warlock is either an Eldritch Blast-er or a Hexblade, that in itself feels defacto cookie-cutter?
 



Frozen_Heart

Adventurer
If almost every Warlock is either an Eldritch Blast-er or a Hexblade, that in itself feels defacto cookie-cutter?
That won't be solved by getting rid of the pact boon/invocation complexity. You will simply be an eldritch blast machine with less options (even if most of those options were always pretty sub par).

A better way to solve it would be maybe opening up the variety of cantrips which work with warlocks class features, so you can change the effects you're having round to round. Or maybe make the eldritch blast way more customisable, where you can switch up its effects between a blast, lots of small beams, a cone, a line, and a melee spell attack. With different status effects and damage types you can apply to it.

I like warlock being a cantrip monster. But it should be more than one cantrip option. Also imo if something is 'essential' for a class, it should be a default class feature. Like agonising blast is basically a must have. Well make it a base feature, and make it apply to all cantrips with damage roles. Suddenly your warlock has a lot more choice of what they can do.
 

Weiley31

Legend
I mean, I'm just adding Eldritch Blast (plus the Agonizing Blast Invocation) back to the Warlock Monster Stat blocks. Just like how I'm giving Orcus his Chill Touch back so he can just screw with people's healing/make an undead PC's life more "interesting" when need to.
 

Or maybe make the eldritch blast way more customisable, where you can switch up its effects between a blast, lots of small beams, a cone, a line, and a melee spell attack. With different status effects and damage types you can apply to it.
That was how the original 3.5 warlock worked!
 



dave2008

Legend
It's an interesting observation. My guess would be that in the 2024 PHB short rests will be dropped, so the warlock class will get a complete rework.
That is my thought as well. Not sure how I feel about that, but as the DM I guess it doesn't bother me to much one way or the other!
 



Zaukrie

New Publisher
I'd get rid of short rests and make all those things recharge differently. Lose the short rest for fiction sake! (though, really, resting does make sense fictionally, so I'm good either way).

As for the warlock......it is so efficient to build one of two types (from what I read and my limited experience) that the class might need some changes if variety is a goal. Or, maybe, have a lot more classes that are more tightly focused. (not gonna happen)
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
I want them at the same time, but not at level 1.
It is hard to be a Warlock without making a pact at level 1, including its pact features.

How can one be a Cleric at level 1, without having decided which sacred tradition one adheres to?

It is hard to have grown up in an Eldritch Knight military academy, unless having spellcasting at level 1.

And so on. For too many archetypes, it works best when it is also part of the backstory, and available at level 1.
 

Remathilis

Legend
How balanced would it be if agonising blast applied to all damage cantrips? Would it make anything other than eb spam an option?
I don't wager much, since clerics can do so depending on the subclass and evokers can do half-damage on a save. EB is still the best option with way since it applies per blast and most attack cantrips are only one attack. Your better off with two 1d10+Cha mod attacks vs one 2d10+Cha mod attack.
 

dave2008

Legend
It is hard to be a Warlock without making a pact at level 1, including its pact features.
If we are thinking AE redesigns the Warlock, then this can be addressed, IMO.
How can one be a Cleric at level 1, without having decided which sacred tradition one adheres to?
Seems to me that these things take time. I went through 3 majors over 2 years in college before finding Architecture. I think becoming a cleric can be similar.
It is hard to have grown up in an Eldritch Knight military academy, unless having spellcasting at level 1.

And so on. For too many archetypes, it works best when it is also part of the backstory, and available at level 1.
I just prefer to spread out class, and thus subclass, features. To grow into the class. I am less interested in backstory and more interested in the character's current story.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Just something which makes me even more convinced that 5.5e will be DnD: Babies Edition.

Mod Note:
So, perhaps the #1 reason why threads go wrong is people eliding from critique about a game design they don't like, to making statements about the players of games they don't like. You don't like reduced customization options, and the people who do are babies.

I don't know where you got the idea that insulting players in this way is acceptable. It isn't. This comes off as trollish, and folks should be better than that.

Moreover, given how much D&D players have been the victim of this stuff from non-players over the years, you (and all of us) should know better.

So, in the future... just don't. Feel free to critique design. Leave the players out of it.

(Edited to improve my phrasing.)
 
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Remathilis

Legend
I think the point was that they wanted to distinguish the Warlock monster variants so they're not all just blasting Eldritch Blast every round but instead are interesting and distinct from each other. They wanted to make it easier for the DM to pick the most interesting option and not the default "the warlock blasts you again."
All things being equal, it's not much different than "the warlock hits you with his flaming scimitar three times" except it's done in melee and not at range.

But I can't help but feel you might be right in that WotC wants to make warlocks more than spooky casters, and if short rests aren't going to be a design point anymore (jury's out in that), making warlocks the melee caster class does give it a unique niche.
 

Weiley31

Legend
I don't mind if the Warlock starts getting more a gish like approach. The Pact of the Blade(and its patch fix Hexblade) make your character more of a gish in "concept." The only thing that would make it more Gish would be giving it the Bladesinger's Extra Attack as a feature or Pact feature after a certain point.
 

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