5.5E Monsters of the Multiverse: the death of eldritch blast?

[Zaukrie]

I'm not sure why making a pact with an entity would make you a gish nearly all the time.....if that is the direction. I'd think with a huge multiverse, making a pact would give a massive variety of powers and archetypes.

 

[HammerMan]

They need to stop and move away from the warlock Right. Now.

The game has too few moving parts for PCs to start.

warlock is the best class (2 sub class choices 1 at level 1 and 1 at level 3) small selection of abilities known with (mostly) 2 uses per short rest to break up between them, and mini feats (invocations) that can add all sorts of little quirks... and at higher level to keep up (if a bit behind) with the big boys you can choose 1 ability every other level that is a big daily shenaagains

 

[HammerMan]

How balanced would it be if agonising blast applied to all damage cantrips? Would it make anything other than eb spam an option?

or just "choose 1 cantrip and add"

 

[Yaarel]

The Paladin has been the gish for a number of editions.

The 5e Warlock Hexblade is arguably the first successful arcane gish.

I can see 50e emphasizing that success.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

The Paladin has been the gish for a number of editions.

The 5e Warlock Hexblade is arguably the first successful arcane gish.

I can see 50e emphasizing that success.

I'd argue that the 4e Swordmage was a far more successful and interesting arcane gish, all without forcing one particular theme on players.

Mod Note:
So, perhaps the #1 reason why threads go wrong is people eliding from critique about a game design they don't like, to making statements about the players of games they don't like. You don't like reduced customization options, and the people who do are babies.

I don't know where you got the idea that insulting players in this way is acceptable. It isn't. This is trollinsh nonsense, and you should be better than that.

Moreover, given how much D&D players have been the victim of this stuff from non-players over the years, you should know better.

So, in the future... just don't. Feel free to critique design. Leave the players out of it.

Sorry. I spoke out of frustration.

 

[Yaarel]

I'd argue that the 4e Swordmage was a far more successful and interesting arcane gish, all without forcing one particular theme on players.


Sorry. I spoke out of frustration.

I am a fan of the 4e Swordmage too!

 

[Scribe]

If almost every Warlock is either an Eldritch Blast-er or a Hexblade, that in itself feels defacto cookie-cutter?

Only if that is the only way to build one. If there are other options, less explored, thats fine. Removing choice and simplifying just because thats what the majority do because they either dont want to think about it, or its the most effective tactic available...doesnt mean other options need to be removed.

5e is basic enough as it is...

 

[Yaarel]

Only if that is the only way to build one. If there are other options, less explored, thats fine. Removing choice and simplifying just because thats what the majority do because they either dont want to think about it, or its the most effective tactic available...doesnt mean other options need to be removed.

5e is basic enough as it is...

That is the challenge of elegant (efficient) design.

"As simple as possible ... but not simpler."

There is a kind of optimization between lumping and splitting.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't mind if the Warlock starts getting more a gish like approach. The Pact of the Blade(and its patch fix Hexblade) make your character more of a gish in "concept." The only thing that would make it more Gish would be giving it the Bladesinger's Extra Attack as a feature or Pact feature after a certain point.

It's already an invocation, so...

 

[Scribe]

That is the challenge of elegant (efficient) design.

"As simple as possible ... but not simpler."

In many avenues, I would agree with you and this concept, in an RPG, I do not.

 

[Yaarel]

In many avenues, I would agree with you and this concept, in an RPG, I do not.

I would think especially in an RPG.

One needs to have most customization possible (splitting) with the least complexity possible (lumping).

Elegant design seems quintessential to RPGs.

 

[Scribe]

I would think especially in an RPG.

One needs to have most customization possible (spitting) with the least complexity possible (lumping).

Elegant design seems quintessential to RPGs.

I dont believe 5e/Wizards can accomplish it.

I get you, 100%, but yeah I dont see it happening.

 

[Weiley31]

It's already an invocation, so...

What I mean is when I say the Bladesinger's Extra Attack, is that you can replace one of the attacks with a Cantrip ala the Tasha's Errata of the subclass.

I honestly feel like all 5E gishes should pretty much gain that feature. The Bladesinger gets the honor of having it from the start while other Gish like classes have to level up and gain it from their features.

 

[Remathilis]

What I mean is when I say the Bladesinger's Extra Attack, is that you can replace one of the attacks with a Cantrip ala the Tasha's Errata of the subclass.

I honestly feel like all 5E gishes should pretty much gain that feature. The Bladesinger gets the honor of having it from the start while other Gish like classes have to level up and gain it from their features.

Gotcha. Understood.

 

[Vaalingrade]

warlock is the best class (2 sub class choices 1 at level 1 and 1 at level 3) small selection of abilities known with (mostly) 2 uses per short rest to break up between them, and mini feats (invocations) that can add all sorts of little quirks... and at higher level to keep up (if a bit behind) with the big boys you can choose 1 ability every other level that is a big daily shenaagains

I meant leave it alone and not take away anymore fun things. I just read it back and it looks like I want to abandon the warlock instead of deleting the wizard.

 

[Charlaquin]

If almost every Warlock is either an Eldritch Blast-er or a Hexblade, that in itself feels defacto cookie-cutter?

That’s players choosing to play cookie-cutter builds. The class is incredibly flexible, it’s just that some players would rather default to a standard build than take advantage of its flexibility. Which is fine, the fact that that’s an option, while still having room to build more unusual stuff, is exactly the point of having so much build flexibility.

 

[Li Shenron]

Completely removing short rests from the game would sound like a historic defeat of both game design and the playtesting process to me.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Completely removing short rests from the game would sound like a historic defeat of both game design and the playtesting process to me.

Absolutely.

I'm a big advocate of the death of the 'adventuring day' and moving to encounter-based design; minimizing or removing the 'game of attrition' aspect and the attachment to a 24-hour fantasy world day.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That’s players choosing to play cookie-cutter builds. The class is incredibly flexible, it’s just that some players would rather default to a standard build than take advantage of its flexibility. Which is fine, the fact that that’s an option, while still having room to build more unusual stuff, is exactly the point of having so much build flexibility.

The flexibility is kinda a trap though. There are couple of ways to build the character that are just flat out better than the alternatives, and not even by a little bit, but by a lot. I would prefer there was better internal balance, and other builds would actually be more competitive.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Absolutely.

I'm a big advocate of the death of the 'adventuring day' and moving to encounter-based design; minimizing or removing the 'game of attrition' aspect and the attachment to a 24-hour fantasy world day.

Some sort of attrition is needed, otherwise battles that do not have significant risk of character death are pointless.