Monsters of the Multiverse: the death of eldritch blast?

Zaukrie

New Publisher
I'm not sure why making a pact with an entity would make you a gish nearly all the time.....if that is the direction. I'd think with a huge multiverse, making a pact would give a massive variety of powers and archetypes.
 

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HammerMan

Legend
They need to stop and move away from the warlock Right. Now.

The game has too few moving parts for PCs to start.
warlock is the best class (2 sub class choices 1 at level 1 and 1 at level 3) small selection of abilities known with (mostly) 2 uses per short rest to break up between them, and mini feats (invocations) that can add all sorts of little quirks... and at higher level to keep up (if a bit behind) with the big boys you can choose 1 ability every other level that is a big daily shenaagains
 


Yaarel

Mind Mage
The Paladin has been the gish for a number of editions.

The 5e Warlock Hexblade is arguably the first successful arcane gish.

I can see 50e emphasizing that success.
 

Frozen_Heart

Adventurer
The Paladin has been the gish for a number of editions.

The 5e Warlock Hexblade is arguably the first successful arcane gish.

I can see 50e emphasizing that success.
I'd argue that the 4e Swordmage was a far more successful and interesting arcane gish, all without forcing one particular theme on players.

Mod Note:
So, perhaps the #1 reason why threads go wrong is people eliding from critique about a game design they don't like, to making statements about the players of games they don't like. You don't like reduced customization options, and the people who do are babies.

I don't know where you got the idea that insulting players in this way is acceptable. It isn't. This is trollinsh nonsense, and you should be better than that.

Moreover, given how much D&D players have been the victim of this stuff from non-players over the years, you should know better.

So, in the future... just don't. Feel free to critique design. Leave the players out of it.
Sorry. I spoke out of frustration.
 


Scribe

Hero
If almost every Warlock is either an Eldritch Blast-er or a Hexblade, that in itself feels defacto cookie-cutter?
Only if that is the only way to build one. If there are other options, less explored, thats fine. Removing choice and simplifying just because thats what the majority do because they either dont want to think about it, or its the most effective tactic available...doesnt mean other options need to be removed.

5e is basic enough as it is...
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
Only if that is the only way to build one. If there are other options, less explored, thats fine. Removing choice and simplifying just because thats what the majority do because they either dont want to think about it, or its the most effective tactic available...doesnt mean other options need to be removed.

5e is basic enough as it is...
That is the challenge of elegant (efficient) design.

"As simple as possible ... but not simpler."

There is a kind of optimization between lumping and splitting.
 

Remathilis

Legend
I don't mind if the Warlock starts getting more a gish like approach. The Pact of the Blade(and its patch fix Hexblade) make your character more of a gish in "concept." The only thing that would make it more Gish would be giving it the Bladesinger's Extra Attack as a feature or Pact feature after a certain point.
It's already an invocation, so...
 



Scribe

Hero
I would think especially in an RPG.

One needs to have most customization possible (spitting) with the least complexity possible (lumping).

Elegant design seems quintessential to RPGs.
I dont believe 5e/Wizards can accomplish it. :)

I get you, 100%, but yeah I dont see it happening.
 

Weiley31

Legend
It's already an invocation, so...
What I mean is when I say the Bladesinger's Extra Attack, is that you can replace one of the attacks with a Cantrip ala the Tasha's Errata of the subclass.

I honestly feel like all 5E gishes should pretty much gain that feature. The Bladesinger gets the honor of having it from the start while other Gish like classes have to level up and gain it from their features.
 

Remathilis

Legend
What I mean is when I say the Bladesinger's Extra Attack, is that you can replace one of the attacks with a Cantrip ala the Tasha's Errata of the subclass.

I honestly feel like all 5E gishes should pretty much gain that feature. The Bladesinger gets the honor of having it from the start while other Gish like classes have to level up and gain it from their features.
Gotcha. Understood.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
warlock is the best class (2 sub class choices 1 at level 1 and 1 at level 3) small selection of abilities known with (mostly) 2 uses per short rest to break up between them, and mini feats (invocations) that can add all sorts of little quirks... and at higher level to keep up (if a bit behind) with the big boys you can choose 1 ability every other level that is a big daily shenaagains
I meant leave it alone and not take away anymore fun things. I just read it back and it looks like I want to abandon the warlock instead of deleting the wizard.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
If almost every Warlock is either an Eldritch Blast-er or a Hexblade, that in itself feels defacto cookie-cutter?
That’s players choosing to play cookie-cutter builds. The class is incredibly flexible, it’s just that some players would rather default to a standard build than take advantage of its flexibility. Which is fine, the fact that that’s an option, while still having room to build more unusual stuff, is exactly the point of having so much build flexibility.
 


Vaalingrade

Legend
Completely removing short rests from the game would sound like a historic defeat of both game design and the playtesting process to me.
Absolutely.

I'm a big advocate of the death of the 'adventuring day' and moving to encounter-based design; minimizing or removing the 'game of attrition' aspect and the attachment to a 24-hour fantasy world day.
 

That’s players choosing to play cookie-cutter builds. The class is incredibly flexible, it’s just that some players would rather default to a standard build than take advantage of its flexibility. Which is fine, the fact that that’s an option, while still having room to build more unusual stuff, is exactly the point of having so much build flexibility.
The flexibility is kinda a trap though. There are couple of ways to build the character that are just flat out better than the alternatives, and not even by a little bit, but by a lot. I would prefer there was better internal balance, and other builds would actually be more competitive.
 


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