more than one dodge buddy?

[Deset Gled]

I believe Beyond Monks (by Chainmail Bikini) had a feat that did something similar to what you want.

 

[elrobey]

We can agree to disagree. Again, as I've stated all along, I'm not claiming my reading is *best* or *only*, merely that it is plausible.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Again, as I've stated all along, I'm not claiming my reading is *best* or *only*, merely that it is plausible.

No, it's not plausible.

There are two possibilities.

One: Every feat can be taken multiple times. The ones that have special language discussing what happens when you take it multiple times merely modify that rule.

For instance:

SELF-SUFFICIENT [GENERAL]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Heal checks and Survival checks.

...

SKILL FOCUS [GENERAL]
Choose a skill.
Benefit: You get a +3 bonus on all checks involving that skill.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill.

So, I can take Self-Sufficient multiple times, and each time I gain a +2 bonus to Heal and Survival checks (they're unnamed bonuses, and so they stack).

However, I can only take Skill Focus (Survival) once, and it provides an unnamed +3 bonus to Survival checks. If I want to take Skill Focus again, it needs to be in something other than Survival.

Two: When a feat says in its Special line, "You can gain this feat multiple times," it is doing so because, as a general rule, you cannot take the same feat multiple times. Therefore, unless the feat specifies so, you cannot take it multiple times.

The problem with interpretation one is that it makes the first one (or two) sentence(s) of the Special line completely useless. Why should they call out "You may take this feat multiple times" if, in fact, that's the general case?

Under such a rules paradigm, Skill Focus's Special line would read:

Special: Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill.

It doesn't.

Moreover ...

Page 49: Feats Table—Item Creation Feats

Remove the superscript “2” after the feats Exceptional Artisan, Extraordinary Artisan, and Legendary Artisan.

Each feat can be taken once only, not multiple times.

Now, you'll notice that the particular table this is referring analogously to is not present in the SRD. That would be the table in the PHB which has listing of all the feats, those which can be taken multiple times marked by a specific footnote. You'll notice that most of the feats don't carry that footnote.

Feats may only be taken once unless it is specifically called out that they may be taken multiple times.

You interpretation not only is not "the best or only," it's not even valid.

 

[Caliban]

We can agree to disagree. Again, as I've stated all along, I'm not claiming my reading is *best* or *only*, merely that it is plausible.

If by "plausible" you mean "completely wrong and ignoring the written rules" you are correct.

 

[Shellman]

The swashbuckler in the complete warrior handbook has an ability which is a dodge bonus vs all opponents I think.

The Swashbuckler or the Duelist has a class special ability that is something like (Superior Dodge) that allows you to gain a +2 dodge bonus against one opponent or split it up betweeen two different opponents and gain a +1 against each of them.

I may be a little off on this but you can check the classes if you want. I

 

[shilsen]

The Swashbuckler or the Duelist has a class special ability that is something like (Superior Dodge) that allows you to gain a +2 dodge bonus against one opponent or split it up betweeen two different opponents and gain a +1 against each of them.

I may be a little off on this but you can check the classes if you want. I

Actually the Swashbuckler just gets a Dodge bonus of its own (ranges from +2 to +4), usable against one opponent. The ability description says that if you also have the Dodge feat, you can apply its bonus against the same or a different opponent.

 

[elrobey]

Interesting distraction, bringing up the tables. But, alas, we've been interpreting the SRD, not the PHB flavor text.

And again, the SRD does not state that you can't take a feat more than once. It states that the benefits of having a feat more than once don't stack unless the description says so. The SRD's general rule is that you can have a feat more than once (but having it more than once is, as a general rule, no better than having it once).

There are cases in which the SRD uses "Special:" language, yes. But as the SRD itself explains, "Special" language is "facts about the feat that may be helpful when you decide whether to acquire the feat." IOW, Special language is extra information about *that* feat. You are trying to infer a general rule out of the presence or absence of special rules. That's plausible -- I will gladly grant you that -- but it's not the only source of meaning.

I will also gladly grant you that the absence of "Special:" language for Dodge is relevant to deciding what interpretation is *best*.

In any event, another problem with trying to infer a general rule out of the presence or absence of special rules is that the SRD isn't 100% consistent. Consider Spell Mastery, which does not have the "Special:" line you insist upon, but plainly does have added effects when you take it more than once.

Look, I have a jaded view about what interpretations are plausible and what are not. Drafting laws is what I do for a living -- I've published a textbook about it -- and studying how courts interpret laws is a major part of that. I am quite sure that if this issue went before the U.S. Supreme Court, a majority of the justices would agree that my interpretation was plausible (and a majority would agree that my interpretation is not the best one).

I disclose that not to claim "I'm an expert, therefore I'm right," but rather to confess "When I look in the mirror, I realize I'm probably trying too hard to make a point that is too abstract and nuanced to be genuinely useful to most people." And quite likely I'm also using the term "plausible" in a way that is not the ordinary meaning.

So I apologize if I've antagonized anyone over what, really, is a trifle.

 

[elrobey]

By the way -- that table -- I don't think it's in the PHB (at least, it's not on page 49, as your quote indicates). Is it the Epic Level Handbook?

 

[FEADIN]

If by "plausible" you mean "completely wrong and ignoring the written rules" you are correct.

No he is right by the rules even if that's seems silly, ilt was written as such because some classes give you free feats but you can have them before switching, a fighter which has always fighted 2 handed and took the feat goes in the wild or meet a lovely druid or else and goes the way of the ranger, at 2dn level if he choose the 2 weapon style he will get 2 weapon fighting but that's nothing for him because it don't stack.

The Rules:
FEAT NAME [TYPE OF FEAT]
Prerequisite: A minimum ability score, another feat or feats, a minimum base attack bonus, a minimum number of ranks in one or more skills, or a class level that a character must have in order to acquire this feat. This entry is absent if a feat has no prerequisite. A feat may have more than one prerequisite.
Benefit: What the feat enables the character (“you” in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.
In general, having a feat twice is the same as having it once.Normal: What a character who does not have this feat is limited to or restricted from doing. If not having the feat causes no particular drawback, this entry is absent.
Special: Additional facts about the feat that may be helpful when you decide whether to acquire the feat.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The SRD is not the same thing as the rules for D&D.

It is a subset of those rules.

In many cases, they are one and the same. In some cases - important cases - they are not.

The table to which the quote I provided refers to is actually in the Eberron Campaign Setting book. There is a similar table (hence, "refer analaogously") in the PHB - which is part of the rules for D&D. It's the second and third, or so, pages in the Feats chapter.