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Multi-Edition D&D

There's a idiom in marketing: "If you think everybody is your customer, then nobody is."

I think I generally agree with this. There is a reason that so many people compare 4e to WoW and that reason, IMO, is that WotC pushed that relationship. There is very little similarity between the two (and people who play 4e learn this pretty quickly) but I think WotC saw WoW as the growing demographic and pushed for comparison. I think it proved to be a mistake and they aren't likely to make the same mistake twice.
 

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BECMI and AD&D coexisted in harmony when I started playing in '82, and I think it was a great time for the hobby to be a player or DM.
What do you mean by harmony in this case? Because my personal experience was that BECMI's various editions created market confusion between itself and AD&D for its entire existence.

For example, my first gaming group in 1980 was using the AD&D 1e core books. I ran out to buy them and stopped cold at seeing how expensive they were to my 10 year-old's $2.00 per week allowance. The Player's Handbook and Monster Manual were each $12.00, and it was a whopping $15.00 for the Dungeon Master's Guide, and then there were the other books, too. I picked up the Red Basic D&D boxed set, thinking it was the introductory version of AD&D. It did advertise itself as a complete game, which looked like a much better deal than the array of more expensive hardbacks. Oh, how mistaken I was.

I'm sure new entrants into the D&D RPG market today are probably confused about 4.0 versus PF, much less understanding pre-1e (Classic, Original, or whatever we'll call it), 1e, BECMI's various incarnations, 2e, 3.0, and 3.5.
 

My thinking is that with digital publishing, it could be economically viable to support multiple editions. Perhaps not only viable, but necessary for survival.

If you develop the same adventure for four editions, it is not quite four times the workload, but it isn't far from it.

I have no idea why people think 4x the work for the chance to sell maybe slightly more books total, but less per printing (leading to higher print costs) is a viable model, but it isn't. 4x the work to sell more digital stuff, where the print cost isn't the issue, is still a losing deal imho.

Then again, they wouldn't have to put out a version of each adventure for each edition- but in that case, what is the point? And how much nerdrage would rise because there's no Xe version of Tomb of the Mud Sorcerer or whatever?

I'd love to see multi-edition support and I think it is possible that we'll see a small smattering of it. More than that- or a return to the "let's split the market by having multiple versions of the same game!" days- is probably a pipe dream. I think what is more likely is some kind of built-in "basic combat rules/advanced combat rules/expert combat rules" dials (both for combat, for social interactions and possibly for other things like "grittiness") in the game itself.
 

You know, you can mix spaghetti sauces. So, a can of spicy, a can of chunky, and you're good to go!

What I mean is, why not release multiple packs that are mutually compatible? You could, for example, use a BECMI adventure in 2e - with very little conversion. Releasing multiple editions that were simultaneously compatible seems like it would be the game changer.
 

You know, you can mix spaghetti sauces. So, a can of spicy, a can of chunky, and you're good to go!

What I mean is, why not release multiple packs that are mutually compatible? You could, for example, use a BECMI adventure in 2e - with very little conversion. Releasing multiple editions that were simultaneously compatible seems like it would be the game changer.

It wouldn't take much "design backpedaling" for WotC to produce a 5E that is inherently compatible with 4E, 3.x and Pathfinder -- at least insofar as it would be no more work to use a BD&D module in 2E. It's a matter of using shared nomenclature and relatively consistent numerical values.

Not that such a thing would happen. Making a Pathfinder compatible 5E would probably be a little too much like conceding defeat -- but it would also be the only real way to attempt to steal those players back, I think.
 

What do you mean by harmony in this case? Because my personal experience was that BECMI's various editions created market confusion between itself and AD&D for its entire existence.

For example, my first gaming group in 1980 was using the AD&D 1e core books. I ran out to buy them and stopped cold at seeing how expensive they were to my 10 year-old's $2.00 per week allowance. The Player's Handbook and Monster Manual were each $12.00, and it was a whopping $15.00 for the Dungeon Master's Guide, and then there were the other books, too. I picked up the Red Basic D&D boxed set, thinking it was the introductory version of AD&D. It did advertise itself as a complete game, which looked like a much better deal than the array of more expensive hardbacks. Oh, how mistaken I was.

I'm sure new entrants into the D&D RPG market today are probably confused about 4.0 versus PF, much less understanding pre-1e (Classic, Original, or whatever we'll call it), 1e, BECMI's various incarnations, 2e, 3.0, and 3.5.


I was twelve when I started playing and wasn't confused. D&D and AD&D had different names. I figured, and rightly so, that D&D was an easier version of the same game, and it didn't bother me that the rules were different. I just figured BECMI was targeted toward beginners. I rather liked BECMI, and played it quite a bit with friends, only getting into AD&D with 2nd edition, though I collected the 1E books. I didn't think it was confusing, but perhaps it was to many others, I really don't know.

When I said "harmony", I was partially referring to my personal experience with both rulesets in part, but mostly I was referring to the fact that TSR continued to publish products for both rules sets for quite a while.

They had different names, but both had Dungeons and Dragons in the name. They were different flavors of D&D, not just because of campaign worlds, but because of the rulesets. BECMI appealed to all sorts of people who wanted a simpler, faster system, not just kids. Heck, I loved that it scaled to 36th level and Immortal level play, even though I never got a campaign that far. The BECMI Rules Cyclopedia was a fantastic book with everything you needed to play in one nice hardback, something I wish WotC would do someday. Mystara had its faults, but it turned out to be a well developed campaign world.

Meanwhile TSR continued to develop AD&D. BECMI rulesets started in 1977 with the D&D Basic Boxed Set and finished with the Dungeons and Dragons Rules Cyclopedia in 1991. AD&D started in 1978. and supported with books like Unearthed Arcana in 1985, until AD&D 2nd edition in 1989. The editions coexisted for 14 years. Hells bells I was 12 when I started playing BECMI, and I was playing both BECMI and AD&D 2E in different campaigns at the age of 20. That longevity and the proliferation of products for both lines is what I call harmony.

When looking up the dates in wikipedia, since I am getting old and starting to forget the hazy details of the 80's, I came across this amusing quote:

Dungeons & Dragons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfortunately, almost from its inception, differences of design philosophy caused this dual marketing approach to go awry. Gygax, who wrote the advanced game, wanted an expansive game with rulings on any conceivable situation which might come up during play. J. Eric Holmes, the editor of the basic game, preferred a lighter tone with more room for personal improvisation. As a result, the basic game included many rules and concepts which contradicted comparable ones in the advanced game. Confusing matters further, the original D&D boxed set remained in publication until 1979, since it remained a healthy seller for TSR.

I find this amusing because it reflects the opinions of many that it is "unfortunate" whenever there is more than one officially supported edition of D&D. It is criticized as confusing and the marketing approach as "awry". However, the concluding sentence reflects otherwise. If it was so confusing, and awry, why was BECMI such a healthy seller for TSR?

Folks don't like the player base being split. They want one official, best version of D&D. Maybe if TSR hadn't published BECMI and stuck with just AD&D, the hobby would have been better off. But I doubt it. That's what they started doing in 1991, and they went bankrupt in 1997.

Above all, folks, especially DMs, want to play the game that they like. BECMI wouldn't go away for 14 years because people were still buying it, and people bought it while AD&D 1E was busy becoming a classic. If TSR had updated BECMI as well into a 2nd edition, maybe things would have turned out different for them in the 90's, maybe not; I doubt that alone would have made a difference, but some extra income could have helped.

3E didn't go away; people were still buying it, even though it was called Pathfinder and supported by a different company. WotC could have continued to support that market, and chose not to make that money. At the time I felt they were doing the right thing, now I'm sure they didn't.

People who want D&D to be only one officially supported edition have a point. It's nice to all sit at the same table and play the same game. When you invite players, it's nice when everyone knows the rules, and talks the same lingo. It's even nicer when the version you happen to like is the one that is officially supported.

People who want to play D&D a particular way other than you have a point too. It's nice to play the version of the game that you love, whether it's without miniatures, with simpler faster combat, Vancian magic, or more or less simulation/realism/wargaming/dungeon-based/encounter-based/etc and you probably don't really care what the table next to you is playing, much less what the rest of the hobby likes.

I should point out that I'm not really in favor of WotC supporting BECMI, 1E, 2E and 3.5E RAW at this time; I think those ships have sailed, in part because I don't think the staff at WotC would be interested in doing such a thing, and designers have to be excited about what they're writing about. But I do think that WotC could benefit from multiple versions of D&D that are designed to support the type of gameplay that people miss from those versions, as well as a cleaned up version of 4E that continues to cater to that crowd. (Without significant errata please!)

I'll be the first to admit that D&D is not spaghetti sauce, no analogy is perfect, but to summarize my point, I'll abuse the analogy one final time:

If you like your spaghetti sauce spicy and no one makes it that way, you won't eat spaghetti sauce (or you'll make your own). If you like D&D played a certain way, and no one publishes a rules set that supports your playstyle, you won't be buying D&D.
 

If you develop the same adventure for four editions, it is not quite four times the workload, but it isn't far from it.

I have no idea why people think 4x the work for the chance to sell maybe slightly more books total, but less per printing (leading to higher print costs) is a viable model, but it isn't. 4x the work to sell more digital stuff, where the print cost isn't the issue, is still a losing deal imho.

Then again, they wouldn't have to put out a version of each adventure for each edition- but in that case, what is the point? And how much nerdrage would rise because there's no Xe version of Tomb of the Mud Sorcerer or whatever?

I'd love to see multi-edition support and I think it is possible that we'll see a small smattering of it. More than that- or a return to the "let's split the market by having multiple versions of the same game!" days- is probably a pipe dream. I think what is more likely is some kind of built-in "basic combat rules/advanced combat rules/expert combat rules" dials (both for combat, for social interactions and possibly for other things like "grittiness") in the game itself.

If you were to try to support 1E, 2E, 3E, and 4E with one adventure, it would be a lot of work.

If you were to create two or three new editions of the game, designed to be somewhat compatible (perhaps they would all use the same monsters, but some versions would ignore certain stats), yet different enough in play style to appeal to different markets, then it's certainly viable economically.

Besides everyone in the work force today knows that labor is cheap. Management everywhere has no problem making workers do more for less. Not saying I approve of that, but I see it happening everywhere. Just because you're making a writer work harder doesn't mean you're paying more these days, and if I'm doing it digitally, there's no extra printing costs.

Still, I'm just really being a devil's advocate. You are correct, even if it doesn't cost more in cash up front, there are costs when you write more material, even if you do it with a new set of editions and a digital first publishing model designed to support such a business model.
 

It wouldn't take much "design backpedaling" for WotC to produce a 5E that is inherently compatible with 4E, 3.x and Pathfinder -- at least insofar as it would be no more work to use a BD&D module in 2E. It's a matter of using shared nomenclature and relatively consistent numerical values.

Not that such a thing would happen. Making a Pathfinder compatible 5E would probably be a little too much like conceding defeat -- but it would also be the only real way to attempt to steal those players back, I think.

Actually, I don't think this would work. The design philosophies really are too different. For one, you could adapt a BD&D module for 2e largely because the monsters hadn't actually changed a whole lot - other than dragons or giants. Most creatures, other than maybe gaining a couple of stat block lines and losing morale, were pretty much identical between editions.

4e isn't like that though. For one, the idea of a "standard" monster of a given type is out the window. In 3e, like editions before it, an orc was an orc, was an orc. Unless you added to it, it was a 1HD creature and that was it. 4e has a dozen different flavours of Orc, none of which are the baseline, depending on what the DM wants to use in a given encounter.

Trying to make a game that's compatible with 3e and 4e would result in a horrible mish mash that wouldn't make anyone happy.
 


I was twelve when I started playing and wasn't confused. D&D and AD&D had different names.
Both games said Dungeons & Dragons, one said Advanced, and one said Basic. The boxed set I held in my hands did not explain they were different game systems, and since it was sealed in plastic wrapping, there was no way to know.


I just figured BECMI was targeted toward beginners.
"BECMI" didn't exist at that time. The Basic and Expert boxes were all that had been published, and it wasn't even referred to as "BE". The Expert box wasn't on the shelves and I had no way of knowing about it. The Hammond Toys and Hobby Store employees knew nothing of the subject.


I rather liked BECMI
So did I. I still have all of it.


When I said "harmony" [...]
Thanks for the clarification.
 

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