D&D 5E Multiclassing just with the core PHB any combo more powerful at low to medium levels?

[CapnZapp]

Ok, I hate multiclassing I admit it. But one day one of my players might say I want to try this, and I eventually will allow it for a campaign.

Now I especially hate class dips, I could get along a bit better with 2nd ed mc-ing than 3e splat book builds.

But that shall not be the topic of that thread.

I ask you, given the PHB is the only resource, is there any combo using just phb raw which shines or outshines other classes / one of its base classes

at low or medium levels, say maximum total levels 6 -10. The lowest convincing build gets 100 points and wins this thread

Any reasoning is fair game, also rp reasons do not just focus on dpr or nova capability but if this is the shtick of your build then it is ok also.

Where multiclassing excels is at high levels. Multiclassing before, say, level five can instead often be a trap option.

This is because classes are heavily front-loaded, and because important gains require four (your first ability score increase or feat) or five (your second attack; third-level spells) class levels.

The abilities and features you get with your first five levels or so are excellent. While the class features gained during the double-digit levels (roughly class levels 12 through 19) are often underwhelming if not completely anemic.

So the best I can do, is to suggest a Sorcerer to pick up two levels of Warlock (which I consider an abusive minmax move and don't really recommend), and for any martial (weapon user) to pick up two levels of fighter (no earlier than your sixth and seventh character levels)

But really, it's not until you're level 12 or higher that multiclassing starts to really shine, since it allows you to replace the weak high-level class features of most classes with the strong low-level class features of, say, fighter.

The most obvious exception being, of course, the high levels of spellcaster classes. You would normally not want to multiclass out of Wizard or Cleric.



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[TwoSix]

Half-Elf Rogue 1/Cleric(Knowledge)1/Bard3 is proficient with 14 skills, thieves' tools, and an instrument, and has expertise in 6 of those by level 5. You can grab one more level in Bard to grab the Skilled feat to get to 17, one level in Ranger to get the 18th (and last) skill, or go up in Rogue to grab Reliable Talent and more expertise by Rogue 11. Warlock 2 is another way to grab two skill proficiencies (via Invocation), as well as a solid at-will option.

Point is, Half-Elf Rogue 1/Cleric(Knowledge)1/Bard3. Great (and useful) start for an all-around skill monkey, and doesn't really suffer at low-levels.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Shadow monk 6 assassin rogue 3. Extra attack offsets missing sneak attack, plus gives one more opportunity to land sneak attack if first attack missing. Plus, teleport. Very thematically coherent.

Plus, having +17 to Stealth (beats DC 27 on average) and cunning action makes you very, very hard to target except by readied actions.

I've used this combination as an NPC villain/foil for the PCs. It's highly effective.

 

[Yunru]

Plus, having +17 to Stealth (beats DC 27 on average) and cunning action makes you very, very hard to target except by readied actions.

I've used this combination as an NPC villain/foil for the PCs. It's highly effective.

How do you get +17 off of a level 9 character? Even with Expertise and maxed Dex (which is impossible at that level) that's only +13 (+5 Dex, +4 Proficiency, +4 Expertise)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

How do you get +17 off of a level 9 character? Even with Expertise and maxed Dex (which is impossible at that level) that's only +13 (+5 Dex, +4 Proficiency, +4 Expertise)

Shadow Monk = Pass Without Trace = extra +10 to stealth.

Maxed Dex is not impossible at level 9 BTW. For example, you could roll a 16+ (more likely than not, happens about 55% of the time) and put it in Dex and be a Wood Elf for +2 Dex +1 Wis, giving you Dex 18. If you put your Monk 4 ASI into +2 Dex you'd have Dex 20 as a Shadow Monk 6/Assassin 3, yielding +23 to Stealth.

 

[Caliban]

Shadow Monk = Pass Without Trace = extra +10 to stealth.

Maxed Dex is not impossible at level 9 BTW. For example, you could roll a 16+ (more likely than not, happens about 55% of the time) and put it in Dex and be a Wood Elf for +2 Dex +1 Wis, giving you Dex 18. If you put your Monk 4 ASI into +2 Dex you'd have Dex 20 as a Shadow Monk 6/Assassin 3, yielding +23 to Stealth.

You can also get hex (either via a Warlock multi-class, or the Magic Initiate feat) to give them disadvantage on Wisdom ability checks - which translates into a -5 on their passive perception. And an extra 1d6 on all your attacks vs. that target.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You can also get hex (either via a Warlock multi-class, or the Magic Initiate feat) to give them disadvantage on Wisdom ability checks - which translates into a -5 on their passive perception. And an extra 1d6 on all your attacks vs. that target.

Yeah, but you only have one concentration, and you can't spend it on both Pass Without Trace and Hex at the same time.

IMO, Pass Without Trace is more valuable, at least if you want to terrify PCs. Players don't get scared of an extra d6 to damage but they do get scared of taking damage without being able to retaliate. It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger vs. the Predator: all the firepower in the world doesn't help if you don't know where to aim it.

 

[Caliban]

Yeah, but you only have one concentration, and you can't spend it on both Pass Without Trace and Hex at the same time.

IMO, Pass Without Trace is more valuable, at least if you want to terrify PCs. Players don't get scared of an extra d6 to damage but they do get scared of taking damage without being able to retaliate. It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger vs. the Predator: all the firepower in the world doesn't help if you don't know where to aim it.

True. I was looking at it from a player point of view. But if you are wanting to scare PC's have a pair setup like this - one concentrates on the Pass Without a Trace, the other on the Hex. They just do hit and run attacks on anyone who is out of sight of the rest of the party.

 

[Blue]

MC characters are neither stronger or weaker than single class in this edition. The main difference you might see is the "sweet spots" move around depending on the build.

I have a slight addendum to this, would you agree?

"Well built MC characters are neither stronger or weaker than single class in this edition."

Basically, I think it's more possible to mess up MC character and be weaker without intending to. If at character level 5 everyone is getting extra attack or 3rd level spells, and not only don't you have your 5th level bump but you don't even have an ASI yet, you'll feel it. I guess it's the opposite of the "sweet spots" you mention - there can be spots where an MC character can feel like they are lagging behind.

 

[Bardbarian]

While this is certainly true, my comments were intended to apply to all level ranges where over the course of a campaign these values fluctuate. Individual class/level combinations are too numerous to list so I felt a broader statement worked in reference to the concept as a whole.