D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Paul Farquhar]

it didn't exist in 5e,

Actually, it does. Jarlaxe has one, and he is in Waterdeep: Dragonheist.

 

[Neonchameleon]

None of that answers the question.

I started this off saying that we needed to talk about narrative role for the halflings, and that if you removed them from most settings it wouldn't affect the setting at all, and that most people wouldn't notice.

You immediately declared that that was not the narrative role of halflings.

No. I declared that the narrative role of races in the PHB is to make good PCs. Which halflings do. There is nothing more needed than that for a race in the PHB. Most things in the real world do not have "a narrative role" - and the more you try and force literally everything to have a narrative role at all times the more artificial and less organic things are.

I then declared that if setting designers and DMs can't use them that's on them. Which it is. I also gave examples of numerous settings that use them well.

Definitively and went on to tell me that there are 4 to 5 players for every DM.... completely skipping out on the fact that you never stated their narrative role.

To repeat myself. Halflings make a good PC race. There is nothing else needed. I've also repeatedly pointed out that halflings are the race that you expect not to be powerful. They are small and not particularly magical. This gives them a unique and distinct narrative role from every other race whose schtick is about how they are great. Just because you seem unable to use this doesn't mean it hasn't been given to you earlier this thread.

I then gave examples of settings that use them well.

Now, when directly asked the answer is... whatever you want. But their narrative role isn't "whatever you want" because if it was then they'd have even less of an identity than they do. Also, while Dark Sun has a unique take on them... they actually don't affect the setting in a meaningful way as the players play.

It reinforces the thematics of the entire setting however. Halflings are, as they normally are, a stand in for the meek - and the Sorcerer Kings were right onboard with everything until they discovered that the planned endgame was that the meek would inherit the earth. So they burned the place down instead. Something doesn't have to be essential to a setting to reinforce it.

And what does that have to do with the lack of tools being a defining character trait in 5e?

The "lack of tools?"

Are you simply agreeing with me and moving on?

No. I'm simply disagreeing with you and moving on because it's not worth responding. I've learned earlier in this thread that you are unlikely to take onboard other peoples' perspectives or you wouldn't still be asking about narrative roles. This means engagement isn't worth it but your perspective is occasionally interesting.

And? Quite literally that statue could depict a halfling. They are a small person after all.

1: That is literally a garden gnome. It is a gnome. If it could be a halfling then literally all gnomes could be halflings and any argument that gnomes are more common than halflings flies out of the window.
2: It couldn't be a halfling anyway. At about a foot tall it would be a "fifthling" at best - and that if going by height rather than mass. Halfling has the word half in it. There's more to being a "halfling" than being a small person.

Tell a random person on the street about "gnomes" or "goblins" or "fairies" and they likely can at least get a context for what you are talking about.

Ask in a garden center and you'll get garden gnomes - which is very confusing if you were intending early mythology and earth spirits. Talk about fairies and you'll get Tinkerbell in most places - but it may be different at a Dresden Files convention. If one person is talking about garden gnomes and another is talking about WoW gnomes things are going to lead to trouble. "Gnome" is a wider term than "primate" in terms of what it covers which is why it is so confused. Two gnomes can be more different from each other than a human is from a loris.

It meanwhile takes people about 30 seconds to learn what a halfling is. They're a relatively mundane mix of the Little People and Hobbits. It's not an utterly confused mess. People are not confused about what halflings are because the concept is easy and the name is evocative. And "halfling" doesn't have dozens of different meanings.

 

[Don Durito]

Blah. That's the same kind of stuff people on the old Mystara Mailing List said had to be done with the halfings of the Five Shires in order to make them interesting.

If you can't make them interesting without going edgelord, just leave them out.

I'm disappointed in the Kobolds, honestly. Paizo showed you can give a full rich life to gnomes without turning them inside out to do so.

I think they're more tragic than they are 'edgelord'.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There is nothing more needed than that for a race in the PHB. Most things in the real world do not have "a narrative role" - and the more you try and force literally everything to have a narrative role at all times the more artificial and less organic things are.

Absolutely this. One of the features of Tolkien's writing that makes the world feel so deep is the inclusion of lots of details and references that are not explained and have absolutely nothing to do with the central narrative.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I think they're more tragic than they are 'edgelord'.

Not sure what the exact components of edgelordiness are, but if "my character is a servant of hell" is in the description, I gotta believe their EQ (edgelord quotient) is significantly above zero.

 

[Don Durito]

Not sure what the exact components of edgelordiness are, but if "my character is a servant of hell" is in the description, I gotta believe their EQ (edgelord quotient) is significantly above zero.

If you played one of these characters why would your character be a (willing) servant of hell?

The gnomes made the bargain out of desperation and necessity. Surely the obvious character hook is to play a character seeking to find a way to both void that bargain while also ensuring that Baba Yaga doesn't use that opportunity to take revenge upon your people.

It seems like a pretty strong heroic hook to me. And it's not something you can achieve by strength of arms. It requires the cunning of a trickster with a legalistic mind to pull off, and that seems like something pretty much in keeping with a very gnomish approach to heroism to me.

If you wanted a non-edgelord hook for an infernal warlock it's hard to see how you could do better.

And as for NPC gnomes, they might try and kill you and sacrifice you to the devils but they're not doing it out of greed or lust for power, they're doing it out of desperation and despair. Played right that could make for quite a good scenario; they're the enemy who's trying to kill you who you end up feeling sorry for and wanting to help.

(And of course, unless the PCs want to make the whole campaign about helping in the gnomes - which would be great - they probably can't help).

 

[Gammadoodler]

If you played one of these characters why would your character be a (willing) servant of hell?

The gnomes made the bargain out of desperation and necessity. Surely the obvious character hook is to play a character seeking to find a way to both void that bargain while also ensuring that Baba Yaga doesn't use that opportunity to take revenge upon your people.

It seems like a pretty strong heroic hook to me. And it's not something you can achieve by strength of arms. It requires the cunning of a trickster with a legalistic mind to pull off, and that seems like something pretty much in keeping with a very gnomish approach to heroism to me.

If you wanted a non-edgelord hook for an infernal warlock it's hard to see how you could do better.

And as for NPC gnomes, they might try and kill you and sacrifice you to the devils but they're not doing it out of greed or lust for power, they're doing it out of desperation and despair. Played right that could make for quite a good scenario; they're the enemy who's trying to kill you who you end up feeling sorry for and wanting to help.

(And of course, unless the PCs want to make the whole campaign about helping in the gnomes - which would be great - they probably can't help).

I didn't say that they wouldn't have good heroic hooks. Just more that in my mind the classic edgelord backstory runs something along the lines of "All of my so-called friends betrayed me and murdered my entire family" to justify a "the only person I can trust is me and my daggers" type of attitude.

That's usually something adopted at the backstory level. Here many of those elements are baked into the DNA of the race.

There is a potential for good hooks and stories in either. And 95% of edgelordiness comes down to player behavior anyway. But this version of gnomes does lean into the trope somewhat.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Ok, just for the sake of completeness, I'm going to go through all the modules for 5e and count the number of references to halfling dragonborn and dwarf/dwarves.

Module	Halfling	Dragonborn	Dwarf/dwarves	Page Count
Hoard of the Dragon Queen	2	0	5	96
Rise of Tiamat	1	1	14	98
Princes of the Apocalypse	20	0	88	258
Out of the Abyss	0	0	42	256
Curse of Strahd	0	0	5	256
Storm King's Thunder	14	0	35	256
Tales of the Yawning Portal	6	0	50	250
Tomb of Annihilation	5	2	51	260
Waterdeep Dragon Heist	18	6	41	228
Dungeon of the Mad Mage	8	4	120	322
Ghosts of SaltMarsh	8	2	28	256
Baldur's Gate Descent into Avernus	7	5	10	256
Rime of the Frostmaiden	Not available
Candlekeep Mysteries	0	11	15	265
Totals	89	31	504	3057

Wow, dragonborn are REALLY getting the shaft here. But, as far as the core 4 main races go, halflings are virtually non-existent in the adventures. They are very under utilized.

Also worth noting that after being nonexistent in the early adventures, dragonborn start to become more visible in Tomb of Annihilation, perhaps reflecting the increase in their real life popularity.

 

[FrozenNorth]

3. Less importantly, I think most people vastly underestimate animal intelligence, in a similar way to how people (historically) have often underestimated the intelligence of other people with whom they don’t share a language. Saying that dogs are as intelligent as a two-year old while a reasonable approximation if painting in broad strokes, is a fairly crude generalization once you start looking at specifics. In reality, they vastly outperform toddlers in some measures of intelligence, while lagging behind in others.

Yes, I play animals as extremely intelligent within their spheres of activity. I also use it as a roleplaying prompt for my players. Telling a dog to keep a lookout for someone wearing a red sash is useless, but I guarantee that the same dog can identify someone who was in the Gauntlight Fen yesterday by scent alone.

 

[FrozenNorth]

No. I declared that the narrative role of races in the PHB is to make good PCs. Which halflings do. There is nothing more needed than that for a race in the PHB. Most things in the real world do not have "a narrative role" - and the more you try and force literally everything to have a narrative role at all times the more artificial and less organic things are.

Isn’t that the case for any creature that is given mechanics in the PHB? I mean, suppose the write-up for each race was just their mechanics. Wouldn’t it still be the case it would make good PCs?

To me, this is a trivial bar to clear.