Neverwinter Nights 2!!!

Simplicity said:
I can't believe the amount of vitriol being spewed at this game. The Atari boards and the reviews on the gaming websites make me really sad. You'd think Obsidian had written a game that kicks people's dog or something. The main complaints seem to be:

1) It's not as cool looking as Oblivion! (Duh. More people per screen + networked play)
2) Multiplayer isn't flawless yet (Well, it wasn't in NWN1 right out of the box either. The DM client is still in BETA for crying out loud. Give them some time. Yes, it'd be nice to live in a world where software worked perfectly out of the box. That's not the world we live in.)
3) Camera issues. There's four different types of camera. No, it's not a first person game.
4) Choppy graphics (Turn off shadows! Turn down resolution! Or buy a better computer. Don't whine because you have an old machine)

1up.com gave the review a 5/10. 5! The reviewer wrote something to the effect of: "I guess if you like D&D... maybe you'd like it." Gamespot gave the *graphics* a 6/10. Total score in the 8 range (which is LOW for Gamespot). Space Rangers 2 got a 7/10 for graphics. Whaaaaaat? The difference between the graphics in those two games is like night and day. Europa Universalis got a 7/10 for graphics. That game looked like CRAP (even in its day).

This game seems to have a lot of depth from what I've seen so far (about 6 hours of play),
and the graphics seem good to me. :( :( :(

Preaching to the choir. And I'm not a fanboy....I've been looking forward to it, definitely, but in the first day or two of the release, I was reading the Atari messageboards, and starting to think that preordering it was a mistake. Now that I actually have it, I'm thinking "did they buy the same game I did"?

NWN, because of the modularity, was almost the perfect D&D game in some way....sure, some like BG2 and PS:T had better stories....but you could do *anything* with NWN, and the community has produced tonnes of material. And now NWN 2 seems to take that trend even further...

Of course, I can't say I'm an expert on the topic, having only played for 30 minutes so far. But once I left the inn in which you start the game, my fears started melting away pretty quickly.

Quick Question: I've heard that some of the prestige classes require that you complete specific quests to gain access to them. Do you know if the Eldritch Knight requires this? Last night, I got my Sun Elf to level 2, so she's now F1/W1. Hopefully I can get her into Eldritch Knight pretty quickly.

Banshee
 

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Banshee16 said:
Quick Question: I've heard that some of the prestige classes require that you complete specific quests to gain access to them. Do you know if the Eldritch Knight requires this? Last night, I got my Sun Elf to level 2, so she's now F1/W1. Hopefully I can get her into Eldritch Knight pretty quickly.
Banshee

I know that some of them require it (my guess: Shadow Thieves and Harpers are gonna have a quest at least... They're really organizations). I doubt Eldritch Knight is going to require a quest, but I haven't gotten there yet, so I really can't say.
 

In NWN2, does the Mind over Body feat use INT to hp instead of CON for all levels? Or only for level 1? The instruction manual doesn't seem clear on the topic.

Banshee
 

Simplicity said:
1up.com gave the review a 5/10. 5! The reviewer wrote something to the effect of: "I guess if you like D&D... maybe you'd like it." Gamespot gave the *graphics* a 6/10. Total score in the 8 range (which is LOW for Gamespot).

I thought the 6 out of 10 for graphics from Gamespot was not deserved - though the reviewer was otherwise kind and was making a point about too high sys requirements and lack of HDR and AA - so he had a point.

And I'm not a fan of the art direction in some of the environmental textures either. The animations (particularly the run anim) could use some work. There are technical issues here though in terms of attack per round which really cause a lot of problems with the Aurora game engine - so there are some solid technical reasons behind this. Still - I'm not a fan.

(If I was in charge of 4E, I would get rid of increasing # of attacks per round. It is the single largest non-computer game friendly rule D&D has. We could do with another approach.)

Anyways, the 1Up.com review was way out of line. I know some of the guys at Obsidian and have some sense of how hard they crunched on this and how difficult it is to get rules variations past WotC.

Given the bias of the reviewer, I started a rather pointed thread and took aim squarley at the reviewer and at the magazine on the Quarterthree forums last night (a site frequented mainly by game devs and gaming journalists).

In response to that thread and the sentiments expressed therein - 1Up and Games for Windows (nee Computer Gaming World) actually RETRACTED the review today and apologized for it. Here's Jeff Green's apology:

Neverwinter Nights 2 Review: The Apology
Well, they say there is a first time for everything. And this would be another one of those first times. Yesterday (Nov 3) we posted online a review of Neverwinter Nights 2 by contributing editor Matt Peckham. Today we are pulling that review down and retracting it. The reason for this is simple. The review was not up to our regular editorial standards, and it was our mistake to publish it in the first place. I stand by Matt Peckham completely, as he has done great work for our magazine and this website. And we will continue to publish his works going forward. So this is not being done to either punish him or to disavow ourselves from him. The blame for this particular mistake falls entirely upon the editors of the magazine, and, in particular, me. It is my job as editor-in-chief to ensure that all of the articles--and in particular, the reviews--meet a certain standard of fairness, that every game gets its "fair shake." After listening to the comments of readers, and after reviewing the matter internally with the other GFW and 1UP editors, we have come to the conclusion that this was not a fair review--or at least, it can be perceived as not a fair review, which is just as bad. And we are not so stupid or arrogant that we can't admit our mistakes here. To publish this review without further edits was a mistake, and for that we apologize. The review has been retracted, the score has been retracted, and it will not appear in our print magazine. We sincerely regret the error, and we will be back next week with a new review.

Jeff

Game Daily, on the other hand, gave it five out of five stars.

I have yet to complete the game on the machine I want to play it on and need some time to come to conclusions about NWN2.

I will say this though: there are fewer problems with this sequel than there were with NWN1 out of the gate. Overall, the game plays much better on lower spec hardware than i thought it would as long as you turn down the eye candy. I'm getting 35fps on my XP 2700+ and Ati x1600 Pro (256) at 1184 x 900 or so res (scaled back widescreen). That's a pretty damn fine performance for rather iffy hardware - so I'm happy about that.

I'll spark it up on my new machine on Monday and see how it purrs.
 

Matchstick said:
They use a 32 point buy system for scores, and there are background traits, though the ones I saw didn't seem to match the ones I've seen elsewhere (I don't remember seeing "Ladies Man" for example). I didn't notice that til later, so there may be more to that and I just missed it. When I looked all of the traits had drawbacks, so I didn't take one.

Some background traits have prerequisites - Ladies Man requires a Cha of 10 or 12, I forget which.

Banshee16 said:
In the opening town, it feels a little sluggish panning the camera around. That could be because there are so many people around, scripted events, etc.

I thought so too, but go under Game Options and you can turn up the edge-of-screen scrolling. I turned it up almost all the way to get it to a level that wasn't sluggish. My system is at the suggested (not minimum) requirements, so it wasn't a game speed thing, it's just set low by default.
 

Right now, I'm getting the first NPC for the third time.

First time I had to do stuff over, I didn't save, so that was my fault. However, for whatever reason the game wasn't autosaving, I didn't (at the time) know why.

The second time, it said there was no more HD space. Uh, not true, I saving it on an almost empty 80GB HD. Corrupted my saves.

That's why I realized it was using the My Documents folder for save games. Grrr. Okay, they want to be Vista compliant for limited user access when it comes out, fine. However, changing the save directory should not only be possible, but made easy. I had to move/repoint my My Documents folder when really all I should have had to do was type in the location in the nwn.ini file (which automatically used MD as a root).

That's my only real gripe. Enjoying it immensely, even if everything related to actually playing the game, from buying to playing and everything in between, has been a chore.
 

I don't think it was just that thread that got the reivew pulled - people on gaming message boards everywhere have been in an uproar (pitchfork & torch mode, almost) over how poorly that review was written.

Still, it's not like 1UP is any good, and CGW (or whatever it's called now) hasn't been god since the mid 90s...(and even before, it had it's hiccups, like Outpost...)
 

trancejeremy said:
I don't think it was just that thread that got the reivew pulled - people on gaming message boards everywhere have been in an uproar (pitchfork & torch mode, almost) over how poorly that review was written.

Still, it's not like 1UP is any good, and CGW (or whatever it's called now) hasn't been god since the mid 90s...(and even before, it had it's hiccups, like Outpost...)

There were some others I'm sure - but Jeff Green and Matt did their replies there. It's their crew, so the criticism stings more at Qt3. *shrug*

As for Outpost: You misremember. That "93% = Excellent!" evaluation for a deeply flawed pile of bug infested Sierra goo was in the premiere issue of PC Gamer back in '94 - not CGW :) CGW slagged it at the time.

Shame about Outpost. It could have been a great game...but I digress. :\

I do think people remember Outpost because A) the review was soooo wrong and B) it was in the premiere issue of the mag.

This review would have been in the Premiere issue of Games For Windows. Seeing as the cover story is an exclusive (and I mean a REAL exclusive, not "pretend" exclusive) which unveils the first released shots of BioWare's Dragon Age...

The market they are going to attract with that cover would not have been too impressed with the "I hate D&D" review betwixt the covers.
 
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trancejeremy said:
Has anyone bought this online? I tried buying it at Amazon.com, who claim they have it in stock, but their estimated shipping date is next week. So I cancelled there and tried Gogamer (who has is for $39.99), and they say they ship withing 24 hours. But they haven't, either. Seems like places are having trouble getting hold of copies of it.

It's a little different here, since it gets imported (ordered the english-language version), but I got an E-Mail, that the delivery is delayed three days, so I should get it next week. :)

Getting original-language games is really silly around here. You have to send in a copy of your passport so they can make sure you are age 18+, because only german titles are rated and the rating does not apply for the original (since it could be different in detail), and therefore the original is always rated the highest (and thus cannot be sold openly in stores and all that stuff). They also can only send it in a way, that it is given *directly* to you, and noone else, not even if they have a legal authorization and are clearly above 18 years. :eek: ;)

Protect the children from Neverwinter Nights! :uhoh: :D

Ok, I can somewhat understand, why it is done that way, but really...

Bye
Thanee
 

Sidestepping the review debacle a minute...

Is anyone else really shocked at how ugly the character avatars are in the game? I mean none of the elves have a sense of lithe form or supernal beauty about them.. they universally look bad - male and female - its actually really disappointing to me.

Oblivion was much the same - all the characters looked really bad and it took a lot of tweaking to create anyone with a small hope of ever getting a date sometimes:)

I'm having trouble adapting to the lack of a radial menu - but I understand the change.. I just wish the characters were not so dog gone ugly. This has little to do with the actual graphics I might add - its a design choice/art direction issue.
 

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