New Article: Death and Dying

[Lizard]

Meh.
Hey, this NPC isn't dead! He must be important to the plot!

And this is different from normal gaming how?

Even in Champions, 99% of villains don't get Recovery after they're unconscious.

Most of the time, I assume any monster knocked to less than 0 hp is dead. It's grossly unheroic for PCs to slit throats, and it's tedious to check Stabilization rolls on a half-dozen orcs. If I really want an NPC to live, then, I will track the negative HPs and roll for them to stabilize, but, otherwise, it's up to the PCs.

For example, at one point, the PCs encountered the villains right after (offscreen) the villains had gutted a friendly tavern owner. One player rushed off to try to save the NPC, heedless of the fact the big bads were pounding on the rest of the party. So I quickly retconned, figured average damage to death, how far negative the barkeep would be, and how many rounds had passed, then rolled stabilization checks. Turned out the PC was one round too late..

ISTM a lot of the "Not for NPCS!" rules are intended to avoid crushing newbie DMs with details which they don't yet know instinctively they don't need, while increasing mechanical complexity for PCs without increasing the burden on DMs. These rules are an inevitable consequence of the increase in PC capability -- either everyone is as complex, in which case the DM is overwhelmed, or PCs are 3-d color CGI images and NPCs are paper stick figures. Given their original design goals, gross oversimplification of NPCs is unavoidable to still have a playable game.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Meh. I'm not thrilled with it, but it doesn't suck.

The only cheese I smell is mysteriously waking up with 1/4 HP.

It sounds like 4e is trying to make a natural 20 be a really big deal. I guess I don't feel like it's any cheesier than doing more damage when rolling an attack roll. Much like rolling a 20 on an attack roll, the PC manages to tap into some inner resource that helps him shake off the pain. *shrug*

 

[A'koss]

and it's more of a Luck Roll than anything else

Which are ripe for feats and class abilities to modify...


The "Wake up with 1/4 HPs" thing strikes me as a cinematic recovery, where the hero suddenly wakes up after a drubbing, scowls and immediately proceeds to kick everyone's ass.

 

[Peter LaCara]

and it's more of a Luck Roll than anything else

Although if you get a bonus to Saves (which I imagine are rare, but extremely significant when they show up), that makes a character much tougher.

Hey, here's an idea. What if there are feats that provide you with bonuses to saves, but only against certain things? Like a Dwarven racial feat that provides a +2 bonus to saves to recover from poison, or a Hard to Kill feat that gives you a +2 bonus on saves to stabilize.

Man. I was a little wary of the new save mechanic at first, but I'm really liking it the more I think about it.

 

[Cadfan]

Good point. Depending on how the system works, this may be my first 4e houserule.

The only reason I can see for having it is that high level monsters (who do more damage) will be able to one-hit kill low leve PCs. Depending on your game style, that may or may not be desireable.

It also gives a standard for handling monsters who are liable to attack a fallen character. Animalistic monsters looking for a meal might keep biting a character with negative hit points, and in my view of things, goblins would rather stab the dead guy then go fight the living one.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

It's pretty good, but I think I still like the mechanics used in AE for Death/Dying more (especially since it increased the range in which being Disabled/Staggered occurred, rather than just outright remove it ).

After my RAW test of 4e (ie: H1), I'll probably switch to a mix between the two (no "negative hit point tax" being one definite change).

 

[Grog]

The one thing I really don't like about this rule is that it doesn't seem to matter how far below 0 HP you are; you have the same chance of dying regardless. This could lead to silly situations like a character getting stabbed in the toe by a halfling and dying three rounds later, while a character whose skull was bashed in by a titan pops back up the next round and goes on fighting.

Still, on balance, I think it's a good rule. I just hope those corner cases don't happen very often.

 

[BASHMAN]

Rouse-Tastic!

THIS is the kind of article that would make someone think the DDI will actually be worthwhile! By far THE BEST Design & Development article made yet. The rest teased you with "if only you could see how cool this is" This one ACTUALLY EXPLAINED how the new mechanic would work, AND how to do it at home in a 3.5 game. I hope they continue along this path in making their articles and that they do this for the Grapple rules soon! Remember, WoTC-- the reason so many people bought 3e was BECAUSE of how much they knew (and liked) about it before it came out-- so by all means, keep sharing, and more of us may be buying!

As to the mechanic itself, I think it is great. I would have 1st level PCs die at Negative CON score instead of -10 though (always how we house-ruled it), and then change to a quarter Max HP later on. I like that there is no "HP Tax" and that it only takes 3 failed checks to die. I'd rather have 3 50% chances to live (odds of failure of all= 12.5%) than 10 10% chances. (Odds of failing them all = 90%)

I like that you can "get better" on your own, and be healed up to 25%. It simulates the character who was knocked out in a monster movie showing up and saving someone else later on, sporting a 2x4 and a bump on the head.

Something I didn't like is that if you stabalize w/ a Heal check, you don't get worse-- but because you aren't rolling it seems you don't get better either... I would say that a person who is stabalized still rolls, but only on a natural 20 do they have any change (they get better).

 

[Wormwood]

I do wonder if, given how LARGE the negative values are, whether you need them at all. I mean, why not just have it so you have a "dying" state when knocked below 1hp, which would be very similar but prevent any fiddling with negative numbers?

Essentially, that's how I do things now.

'Unconsious' is the default condition when you go under 1 hp, while 'dying' is the state you pass into if you take damage while unconsious.

At the end of the encounter/scene, unconscious characters wake up, dying character die. Naturally, action/drama points can be spent to bump you up from dying to unconscious to 'awake'.

 

[Lizard]

I do wonder if, given how LARGE the negative values are, whether you need them at all. I mean, why not just have it so you have a "dying" state when knocked below 1hp, which would be very similar but prevent any fiddling with negative numbers? The article didn't seem to touch on that, other than to say you might get hit for enough to go from low-HP to perma-dead (sure, but it seems unlikely, frankly, and they just explained how that wasn't particularly fun).

From what we've seen, 4e is big on DOTs and area effects. This means your corpse will keep taking damage round after round, more so than in 3e -- so you may well burn through that reserve before you've hit '3 strikes'.