D&D 5E New class options in Tasha

[Hohige]

What is the theme of the sorcerer that this is breaking?

"Theme" is limited spells known.

 

[ScuroNotte]

The Divine Soul Sorcerer has all spells from Cleric and Sorcerer list.
All spells from cleric and sorcerer are avaiable now for free.

But still can know only 15 spells maximum.

 

[Azzy]

It is breaking the most important mechanical differentiation between them and wizards.

And what is that?

"Theme" is limited spells known.

Is it? When I read the description of the sorcerer class in 5e, I don't see that listed as a theme. I think that's just baggage that you're carrying over from 3e and really isn't indicative of the current sorcerer. Besides, you already have limited with, as @ScuroNotte says, 15 known spells at most.

 

[Cadence]

Yes, and I realize that this beside the point and isn't an issue if you actually compare the sorcerer and wizard and what they both get:

To recap, sorcerers have a number of spells known (of a level they can cast) equal to their sorcerer level + 1 (until 11th-level, after which they gain 1 addition spell known every other level). Wizards, on the other hand, can prepare a number of spells from their spellbook equal to their wizard level plus their Int modifier (with a minimum of 1). Their spellbook contains, at 1st-level, 6 1st-level spells plus two spells of any level they can cast at each additional level.

<snip>

So, no, I'm not seeing how this is in any way overpowered or gamebreaking.

I haven't been 5e'ing long. Am I reading right that the Wizard and Sorcerer get to cast the same number of spells?

In PF, the Arcanist (basically the 5e Wizard?) had fewer spells than the Sorcerer to balance out the extreme flexibility.

 

[Azzy]

I haven't been 5e'ing long. Am I reading right that the Wizard and Sorcerer get to cast the same number of spells?

In PF, the Arcanist (basically the 5e Wizard?) had fewer spells than the Sorcerer to balance out the extreme flexibility.

Yes, in 5e the full casters all have the same number of spell slots.

 

[cbwjm]

Since wizard will be the only class that has limited access to their spell list, you could change their spellbook to be a magical item that includes every wizard spell in existence and let them have access to all of them. Then just let everyone change as many of their spells as they want after a long rest.

 

[MoonSong]

I haven't been 5e'ing long. Am I reading right that the Wizard and Sorcerer get to cast the same number of spells?

In PF, the Arcanist (basically the 5e Wizard?) had fewer spells than the Sorcerer to balance out the extreme flexibility.

Not really. Well, technically they have the same number of slots, but in practice arcane recovery means wizards get more slots if they take a short rest, and sorcerers get less spells overall because metamagic eats away sorcery points if not slots themselves.

You heard it right, Wizards cast more spells than sorcerers.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So, no, I'm not seeing how this is in any way overpowered or gamebreaking.

And yet that sorcerer over a series of a short downtime can swap out EVERY SINGLE KNOWN SPELL FOR A SPELL THEY HAVE NEVER KNOWN BEFORE at no cost other than the time. That is INSANE versatility.

Also, I never said it was game breaking, but it is overly powerful and removes one of the two things a wizard is supposed to be good at: versatility and rituals.

That is why I also suggested a downtime rule of 1 workweek per spell level to swap out additional known spells. Even a number of long rests equal to the spell level of the new swapped spell would be somewhat reasonable.

So, swapping out for a 1st level spell, one long rest.
Swapping out for a 2nd level spell, two long rests.
Etc.
Swapping out for a 9th level spell, nine long rests.

But that is the best I can do that to me would be at least better balanced.

If you still don't see how it is unbalanced and harming wizards, I am guessing you aren't a fan of the class. Because, unless you want to focus on ritual casting, you might as well play a sorcerer and enjoy those metamagics that you get as well.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Did you account for the overlap in Sorcerer+Cleric?

Yes, overlapping spells were removed.

 

[DND_Reborn]

You heard it right, Wizards cast more spells than sorcerers.

And sorcerer's can twin their spells, gaining double on some. Or use sorcery points for more spell slots. Over all, they were reasonably balanced, now it is definitely in favor of the sorcerer. At 20 sorcery points, and 7 points for a level 5 slot, the sorcery can have 2 additional 5th level slots without the need for a short rest; and have 6 sorcery points left for 3 more level 1 spells...

EDIT: Ok, at the highest levels, with Spell Mastery giving them two at will spells, and a couple uses of Signature Spells, Wizards finally can cast more than Sorcerers... but not many games reach those levels or even close to them. shrug