D&D 5E New class options in Tasha

[DND_Reborn]

That's just silly.

Do you realize it could cost a wizard over 50,000 gp to be able to have access to every spell in their spell list?

Every other class now has access to their complete spell list --- daily!

Other prepared casters (Clerics, Druids, Paladins) choose from their entire list when selecting prepared spells.
Known-spell casters (Bard, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock) were able to choose from their entire list as well, even if they didn't know as many spells. (They have other class features that make up for this--in theory, anyway, YMMV).

How about this WotC: allow Wizards to choose from their entire spell list as well when selecting prepared spells.

Then you can have real Spell Versatility for everyone.

 

[Krachek]

Do you realize it could cost a wizard over 50,000 gp to be able to have access to every spell in their spell list?

Every other class now has access to their complete spell list --- daily!

Other prepared casters (Clerics, Druids, Paladins) choose from their entire list when selecting prepared spells.
Known-spell casters (Bard, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock) were able to choose from their entire list as well, even if they didn't know as many spells. (They have other class features that make up for this--in theory, anyway, YMMV).

How about this WotC: allow Wizards to choose from their entire spell list as well when selecting prepared spells.

Then you can have real Spell Versatility for everyone.

Having a single additional spell per new level would be quite enough!
But spell versatility is a cool attribute. Changing one spell a day won’t change drastically an adventure, and character won’t whim, only players.

 

[Ancalagon]

Yeah... I think this is too good. Swap out a spell every level? Sure I can live with that. Every long rest? hmmmm....

 

[Mistwell]

If you know your history of D&D, the sorcerer is supposed to have a limited selection of spells and is able to cast them more often than the wizard, whom, might know more spells but must prepare them in order to cast them.

The sorcerer always have its limited amount of spells at the ready, while the wizard can only prepare a limited amount of spell. This is the fundamental difference between the two.

So the point of a sorcerer is to be "stuck" with its spell selection. That at level up a sorcerer can change his spell allotement is acceptable, but overnight? That's a wizard's job and strong point. This means that on rest the sorcerer becomes way more powerful than the wizard because the sorcerer can now have access to his full spell list while the wizard isn't. The wizard class must still find its spells be it by leveling, buying and copying from other wizard's spell books or scrolls.

This idea of the sorcerer class changing its spell allotement on a long rest is what we call in French a false good idea. This new rule simply makes the wizard obselete. Might as well remove the class altogether as since the sorcerer no longer have its weakness, no need to make a wizard. Versatility is now on the sorcerer's side too.

I agree. This is an absurdly sneaky nerf to Wizards for no good reason. Before, all those scrolls they found and carefully copied into their spell books (at great cost of time and gold) had a point - you could change your spells each night to use them. Now, they cannot even keep up with the sorcerer, while spending their scroll and gold treasure and weeks of time. Because apparently sorcerers were born with all spells changeable on a night's rest, all of a sudden? That completely changes the nature of these two classes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Do you realize it could cost a wizard over 50,000 gp to be able to have access to every spell in their spell list?

Every other class now has access to their complete spell list --- daily!

Other prepared casters (Clerics, Druids, Paladins) choose from their entire list when selecting prepared spells.
Known-spell casters (Bard, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock) were able to choose from their entire list as well, even if they didn't know as many spells. (They have other class features that make up for this--in theory, anyway, YMMV).

How about this WotC: allow Wizards to choose from their entire spell list as well when selecting prepared spells.

Then you can have real Spell Versatility for everyone.

Seems unlikely. WotC doesn't seem to want to provide new options for wizards. They have significantly fewer new subclasses than others, and few if any good feat choices. I'm sure we got the ones in Wildemount because they came from Mercer rather than anyone at WotC wanting to provide new options for wizards.

 

[Mistwell]

Am I the only one who feels like Spell Versatility would have virtually no effect on my games? My players almost never swap out their prepared spells, even Clerics and Druids who can choose from any spell on their list. Once in a blue moon, a Cleric might swap out a spell for a day, if they expect to need something particularly niche that they wouldn’t otherwise prepare. But for the most part, my players pick their go-to spells and stick with them. This rule might allow a sorcerer or a bard who wanted to try Ice Knife or something to get rid of it without having to wait for level-up, and it might allow them to grab a spell one day that they didn’t anticipate needing to use all the time, but that’s about it. NBD, really.

It's really mostly a wizard thing. Their spell list is more tailored to that sort of thing.

 

[DND_Reborn]

eems unlikely. WotC doesn't seem to want to provide new options for wizards.

LOL sorry if it didn't come off right, but I was being sarcastic.

I think Spell Versatility as written is a horrible concept. If they made it into a downtime activity--maybe--with a workweek per spell level of the spell you wanted to swap out. But once per long rest--way too much. Not happening here.

 

[Ancalagon]

LOL sorry if it didn't come off right, but I was being sarcastic.

I think Spell Versatility as written is a horrible concept. If they made it into a downtime activity--maybe--with a workweek per spell level of the spell you wanted to swap out. But once per long rest--way too much. Not happening here.

That could work... good houserule in fact.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That could work... good houserule in fact.

Thank you. That was my initial thought when I saw this was coming out.

The idea behind it was because some groups take longer to level, so the chance to swap out a poorly selected known spell takes too long, making the class less appealing. Well, for such groups it seems likely (I could easily be wrong) that they might have more access to downtime. My suggestion might help mitigate some of the issues those groups face without giving too much immediate versatility to known-spell casters for groups which play at a faster pace.

But, as others have pointed out, IME I see so little change in prepared spells, it would almost just be better to make all casters known spells. For wizards, I would rather see a check to learn a spell, but once you learn it, you know it and can cast it whenever you need (and have slots available, of course).

Maybe a spellcasting check with a DC of 8 + the spell level? You could do it for Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Wizards. Once you learn a spell, it is known to you. It seems simple but maybe is too much. I'm just spit-balling here.

 

[MoonSong]

2) Yes, I agreed that wizard spell list is stronger than sorcerer list, but not cleric list + sorcerer list. Right?

I can't remember the numbers, but at one point I'd made the math. Sorcerers and Clerics already share a 20% of their spells, and some of the spells clerics have that sorcerers don't are also on the wizard list. The rest tend to be thematic divine spells like healing, raising the dead and growing back lost limbs. If I remember well, the wizard list is still bigger than sorcerer+cleric and has a lot of wizard-only spells that only bards get to poach.