D&D 5E New Drow cultures coming in Starlight Enclave, the Lorendrow and the Aevendrow

To go to the example you picked out: the demon worshipping theocratic culture is bad because THEY WORSHIP DEMONS. This isn't modern Church of Satan which is a pisstake at other religions, they are active in serving the literal embodiment of evil and spreading misery and destruction. Is that not evil, or are we back to "demons aren't evil either" territory?

I think it's close, but not really that. In real life, people having a stance in religion are often accused of holding evil beliefs (Christan by pagans during the Roman Empire, then Pagans by Christians during the same Roman Empire, Catholics by Protestants and the other way round, Atheists nowadays in countries were a religious orientation is mandatory/socially expected, Muslims nowadays by association with Al-Qaeda terrorists and non-Muslim by said Al-Qaeda terrorists). If you create a setting were it is true and justified to hunt and kill people on the basis of their religious beliefs, because, in setting, they have really chosen to worship an evil entity seeking to make everyone miserable, for example the God of Violent Murder, you create a setting were one of the most common source of prejudice on real earth is true and justified. Some people no longer want that. You could say they are justified, in setting, to do that, but some don't wan't to even consider an in-setting argument and a strong distanciation between entertainment and real-life endorsing of a belief. (Unless I am mistaken, on this very board there is a member that is offended by the Wall of the Faithless and the fact that it is objectively right to be theist in FR, because he was discriminated against on the basis of his atheism: it's easy to see why he wouldn't want to play in the FR).

Same with racism: Black People are the subject of real-world racism, so if in your setting, you have a black-skinned race that is evil, either because they are genetically evil, but even if they are just part of your regular Nazi society, to the point that it is justified to kill them based on their skin color (hey, look, a dark elf, he's probably supporting Menzoberranzan, no need to ask him, let's kill him), it is distasteful to some. Because you justified killing people based on skin color (even if the color you chose was red or blue or something equally fantastic). Which is wrong in real life, and this make it wrong in all their entertainment, because they choose not to draw the limit at this level.

Having "most X" supporters of an evil society doesn't solve the problem in this case, because "Most X are bad people, except John, my X friend, which is fine" is a very common defense used by racist to "prove" that they are not racists. "Most Menzoberranzan are bad apples" is very much like "Most Mexicans/Germans/Americans/Iraqi/any other nationality are bad apples": not a line of thought some would want in their entertainment. And I am not saying that anyone having a setting where most people support a morally reprehensible regime is morally at fault himself, I am just describing that not everyone draws the line of acceptability at a different point.

Edit: to clarify that the Mexicans were just an example, not that there are similarity between drow culture and mexican culture.

Everyone draws a limit. I haven't seen James Bond movies being criticized because the hero break the speed limit during chase scenes, while smoking and drinking heroes have gone the way of the dodo in Hollywood. Sometimes the limit is difficult to establish: should the need to protect children from porn really necessitate the removing of a teacher's Facebook account mentionning Gustave Courbet's L'origine du Monde? Both sides of the Atlantic ruled differently on this question. The goal of any company is to improve its market share and try to provide entertainment compatible with the limit of most customers, alienating the less potential people, not making moral choices by itself.
 
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Having "most X" supporters of an evil society doesn't solve the problem in this case, because "Most X are bad people, except John, my X friend, which is fine" is a very common defense used by racist to "prove" that they are not racists. "Most Menzoberranzan are bad apples" is very much like "Most Mexicans are bad apples": not a line of thought some would want in their entertainment.
Why are they being likened to Mexicans here, though? The Lolthites and their culture are a slaving oppressor class with a devotion to their oppressive god in their homelands rather than the marginalized. If anything the Lolthite drow are more akin to white supremacists.
 
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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Or maybe back to BECMI where they're are no outer-planar beings at all?
That's an oversimplification; if you look at the "Fiends, Lesser" entry on page 108 of Book One: Codex of the Immortals of Wrath of the Immortals (affiliate link), they're quite clearly the classic demons/tanar'ri of AD&D under different names (as the illustration makes clear):

NftVGmW.jpeg
 

No, evil is a synonym for evil. As in "this culture engages or condones one or more things that most people consider abhorrent.
No evil is "I don't approve of this". Like "women leaving the home and getting jobs is evil". It changes with time and culture.
What people here apparently no longer accept is that a large group of people would engage in such actions willingly, which to me flies in the face of plenty of historical evidence.
My fairly recent ancestors (about 2-3 generations back) benefited from the British Empire and the transatlantic slave trade. I think it would be arrogant in the extreme for me to claim to be a superior being because I do not approve of those things. Never mind being justified in killing them in the event that I time-travelled into the past.
How many people accepted Nazism even if they weren't part of the party? How many joined the KKK or picnicked to watch lynchings? How many today defend police brutality? How many have joined cults and allowed the abuse done by thier leader?
Lots: and they are JUST LIKE YOU AND ME.
To go to the example you picked out: the demon worshipping theocratic culture is bad because THEY WORSHIP DEMONS.
God, demon, what does it matter what they call the imaginary being they worship?
This isn't modern Church of Satan which is a pisstake at other religions, they are active in serving the literal embodiment of evil and spreading misery and destruction. Is that not evil, or are we back to "demons aren't evil either" territory?
Then what they are doing wrong is "spreading misery and destruction", who they worship and how they are governed is irrelevant.
 





Remathilis

Legend
Because you justified killing people based on skin color (even if the color you chose was red or blue or something equally fantastic). Which is wrong in real life, and this make it wrong in all their entertainment, because they choose not to draw the limit at this level.

KILLING in real life is wrong, legally except in self-defense and arguably morally in all cases. However, the game is predicated on engaging foes in combat, which makes your typical PC no better than the monsters they face. The game itself (and indeed, many games from war games RPGs to modern video games) only function with the justification that violence against the opposing side is warraned and necessary.

In all honesty, your typical adventuring party are a mercenary group operating outside international law and engaging in war crimes.
 

That's an oversimplification; if you look at the "Fiends, Lesser" entry on page 108 of Book One: Codex of the Immortals of Wrath of the Immortals (affiliate link), they're quite clearly the classic demons/tanar'ri of AD&D under different names (as the illustration makes clear):

NftVGmW.jpeg
LOL while all the rest of them are trying to look tough, that hezrou (or whatever it was called in the book in question) looks like a 5-year-old in his school picture...
 

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