NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

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Hey Farealmer matey! :)

Farealmer3 said:
They convert all force against them into harmless light.

This message of 'all' force bothers me.

What happens when they hit another Lightwing?

Also what happens when they hit part of an object - is the whole object turned to light, or just part of it. If the former, then how come they don't automatically convert the entire universe to light by virtue of touching the universe?

Farealmer3 said:
For example when they were used to slice through some asteroids the asteroids turned into light and vanished. So the question really is how would you make a ability that nullified eveything it touched and could be used both offensively and defensivly.

I can sort of see where dante is coming from here, it sounds a lot like disintigration.
 

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Hello again matey! :)

Farealmer3 said:
It's not disintegration, it's turning something into light.

Yes, but doesn't this light itself disappear immediately after conversion? Thus, does it not mimic disitigration?

It's a force that laughs off attacks that bust 1/20th a galaxy,

Like a Wall of Force?

the weakest people who weild it require the entire the 3rd dimension to go bye-bye before they die.

In effect, they are sidereals by Ascension's rules.

It origianlly came from three high lord multiverse creators, themselves creating the aformetioned being as well as a near supreme being level creature just to see if they could make something stronger than them.

So just to clarify.

1. It can block any attack.
2. It can destroy any target with a single hit.

If the above two are accurate, how the hell is the wielder challenged in this series?

It's so far beyond disintigration it's ridiculous. You might as well say the wish spell is the same as the Infinity gauntlet.

It does have all the hallmarks of disintigration though - albeit one that can conceivably disintigrate anything (?).
 

Howdy! :)

Farealmer3 said:
It doesn't, but i ain't really going to argue the point. I come here for U_K's wisdom, not to listen to you and Dante, who from what i've seen as i wait U_K's responses are much to judgemental for my tastes.

Oi! Be nice! Dante and WarDragon are only giving their opinions. Some people prefer a sort of gritty epic fantasy against the more outlandish fantasy normally found in anime. Although personally I love all that over the top stuff! :)
 


Hey Adslahnit! :)

Adslahnit said:
Since I don't have Ascension, could anybody see what's the lowest divine rank you can get to 232 Strength at? Barbarian rage and size increases are fine, but no temporary boosts from spells. I'm trying to plan out my pantheon using the lowest possible benchmarks for each.

Possibly too many variables to give an unbreakable figure.

Certainly you would need to be at least a demigod because you will need Legendary Strength.

A Fighter 36 Demigod putting all their feats into Legendary strength and having an Epic Belt of Strength might do it.

Base 18
+42 Strength from Demigod abilities (all others converted 2:1 and added to strength)
+9 Ability Increases every 4 levels
+13 Epic Feats
Total 82 x2 for Legendary Strength = 164
+32 Belt of Strength
Final Tally = 196

That seems to suggest that the minimum is probably Lesser God. Unless I am missing something?

Also, is there a system in place for trading in feats for unwanted class features? Like if a Barbarian's Trapfinding or if a Druid's Wild Shape don't find the character's theme and known abilities, can you trade them in for feat?

Yes, you can use wishes to change them.

Well at least you didn't see Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann's galaxy-sized mecha (the protagonists' mecha on the right in the attached pic) punching through the pasts, presents, and futures of multiple universes at once (that's a Perfect Astro Strike with Transtemporal right there) and eating a concussive blast with the power of the Big Bang without taking a scratch. All while standing on some bizarre, solid, galactic battlefield.

SOunds like my kind of stuff! :p

Oh, and all it took for the antagonists' mecha (the one on the left in the pic) to achieve the Big Bang blast was it grabbing two galaxies, jumbling them up with its hands, and proceeding to "throw their energy". One of the catchline's of that show was "Kick logic to the curb!" after all.

Reminds me of time lords in action.

To be fair though, only about 5-10% of all anime nowadays are of the mecha genre. The rest either about deity-level combatants fighting each other, deity-level cute girls fighting each other, "slice of life" of wide-eyed schoolgirl life, grim and serious modern-day issues, pseudo D&D-ish fantasy, "what if" sci-fi, etc.

I don't really watch anime that much, but I've been keeping up with what the internet is currently downloading from live streams in Japan (the translated series that arrive in the US get there about 1 or 2 years too late), and I can say that cosmic-level galaxy-exploding shows only make up about 3% of what's out there.

...and what are the titles of those shows so that I can check them out? :D
 

What happens when they hit another Lightwing?
They cancel eachother. It was a point that when the main chrarcter(who had three) fought the final "bad" guy(who had 5) the bad guy used three of his to cancel out the main characters then attacked with the remaining two.

Also what happens when they hit part of an object - is the whole object turned to light, or just part of it. If the former, then how come they don't automatically convert the entire universe to light by virtue of touching the universe?
My guess it that it's doesn't effect an object unless it's defending it's weilder(of which it can do of it's own accord) or they specifically attack it. For example the main character cut a space ship in half that contained an inescapable pocket dimension and the dimension was cut as well as the ship.

but doesn't this light itself disappear immediately after conversion?
Yes

Like a Wall of Force?
No, because this expolsion sundered space as well(only white existed in the area after the blast)i don't think wall of force would survive an attack that killed space in the area of effect.

If the above two are accurate, how the hell is the wielder challenged in this series?
Because it's a short series and combat makes up very little of it, usually only at the end of a OVA(which their are three with 6-7 episodes each). And the main character can't accually control this massive cosmic power throughout the series which is a specific point on the end. It's mostly about a normal guy who finds out he's very extraordinary but only wants a normal life. Lots of comedy insues.

This preview aught to give you an idea of them. The woman who interrupts the fight is a high lord that created the multiverse.
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v551271skzm72JB?confirmed=1
 
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Farealmer3 said:
It doesn't, but i ain't really going to argue the point. I come here for U_K's wisdom, not to listen to you and Dante, who from what i've seen as i wait U_K's responses are much to judgemental for my tastes.

I don't recall being judgmental on this particular thread. If anything I was offering alternative explanations for how these abilities might actually function. Disintegration can turn matter into harmless light. Unless of course you can find me a specific ruling that doesn't allow you to modify precisely how disintegration functions, it remains rather vague. So disintegration could explain how that particular effect works, even if it doesn't sound reasonable to you. Besides, nobody has ever declared where a disintegration spell draws it's energy from. It could be from nearly any dimension. You should stop being so one-dimensional in your thinking when thinking about a multidimensional effect.

You should really avoid being a hypocrite by summarily passing judgment upon me for offering simple game rule advice. You were awfully quick to bite down on my throat there without provocation. I actually love anime and can see it working in a campaign, if it's done right. You shouldn't lump me and Wardragon together on that little note. Don't get me wrong, I think ur picking on him a bit too, but lumping the two of us together is a bit like sticking evil Piccolo and evil Vegeta together on the same team. It just doesn't really apply.

To be honest the two of us bicker like cat's and dogs, although we do see eye to eye on things from time to time. Like 4th edition being a huge disaster =^.^=
 

You should really avoid being a hypocrite by summarily passing judgment upon me for offering simple game rule advice.
Let this be known this is the last i will respond to you, i don't like you and getting into it with you isn't worth alienating myself from U_K. It wasn't your "advice" that gave me that judgement, it's the other posts in the various threads around here. Infact you get on U_K"s nerves(even with his mellow attitude) and that alone is enough for me to condemn/avoid you.
 

The level of power displayed in the Tenchi OVAs always seemed, I thought, to tap in nicely to U_K's system of divinity, albeit not perfectly.

The Light Hawk Wings that Tenchi uses basically convert any matter they hit into energy; this goes for the whole of the object hit. Kagato was slashed across the chest, and completely disintegrated (I think we can agree that that term is close enough).

Given what the series tells us (possible spoilers here for the third OVA series), Tenchi himself is in fact the Supreme Being; in nascent form, at least. His ability to generate Light Hawk Wings is thus an Esoteric Ability (though it's far more than one strata removed). It's worth noting that killing him essentially just forces him to manifest as the Supreme Being completely.

Z, by contrast, was a much higher divine rank than mortal-Tenchi, and had the ability to generate Light Hawk Wings as a properly-purchased divine ability, hence why he has more of them (and more knowledge of them) than mortal-Tenchi. He also somewhat answers the question of what happens when two people with Light Hawk Wings fight; Z simply nullifies all three of Tenchi's LHW's at the cost of his own, leaving Tenchi with none and himself with two.

Given that Z is clearly less powerful than the Choushin, but still able to defy them, he's at least of sidereal level (though he doesn't have the pantheistic tie to a section of reality that U_K's sidereals have - note, however, that D3 and the other guardians of the dimensions do).

Given God-Tenchi's power level and Z's power level, this would seem to pretty clearly place the Choushin as being Eternals. Precisely what level of Eternal is hard to figure out, as they don't have any characteristics of needing to complete themselves by consuming sidereals the way Demiurges do, and likewise U_K's rules for Time/High Lords seems to lean heavily towards one such being for a particular universe (the Choushin, by contrast, are three sisters who are creating multiverses because they are actively seeking out the Supreme Being; they do this because they have perfect knowledge but still don't understand how they came to exist).

So what level does that place the LHW's at? Well, if Tsunami is an Eternal and can use ten of them, and Z is a Sidereal and can use five, and Tenchi is a mortal (or maybe has a divine level that is less than a demigod) who can use three (at least six after the first time he's awoken as God-Tenchi), then - presuming Tenchi is a special case - they must be a Transcendant ability, which would mean that in fact, Z is also using them as an Esoteric Ability (more in line with the normal rules for doing so).

Regarding the LHW's power level, they actually vary quite a bit in the series. One of the Tenchi novels does say that conventional power could pierce one, but it'd take "a reactor the size of a planet" to generate enough energy to do so. Also, remember in episode five of the OVA series, Tenchi has Ryu-Oh (a second-generation ship) throw it's LHW's at the Soja (Kagato's ship), which fires it's own world-destroying beam in response. The LHW's are actually overcome, and the much-reduced beam destroys Ryu-Oh.

Presumably, the Counteractor can also overcome the LHW's (whenever Tokimi - one of the Choushin - manifests her power in the physical universe from the higher dimensions, it creates an opposing energy elsewhere; the more she uses her power in the universe, the stronger this opposing energy grows. This is called the Counteractor, currently in the form of Lady Misaki, one of the queens of the galactic Jurai Empire).
 
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No, it says one power exists that could pierce them but it requires huge amount of energy and a very big system. Basically ONE power that could do it. Not just anything that craps out planet killing shots. Which is the system pirates use in the books to destroy a Jurai ship. Otherwise only Ryoko(who was Washu's attempt to create a supreme being) or another wing can stop them.

As to the ship incident that ignores that ship LHW's only borrow power from Tsunami, they aren't accualy made by the ship, this makes them weaker than real wings like Z's. Especially considering they are designed for defense as Aeka said using them for attack makes them vulnirable. Real wings don't suffer that problem. Z can blast planets, fleets, use his wing for attack and defense simutaniously and not suffer the least amount of vulnirability.
 
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