NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[Alzrius]

No, it says one power exists that could pierce them but it requires huge amount of energy and a very big system. Basically ONE power that could do it.

That's not what was in what I read. In the "Jurai" novel, Azusa is shocked that Kagato is able to get through his ship's LHW's defenses, and the ship's intelligence (IIRC it was the ship and not Azusa himself) that says penetrating them would take energy in such an amount that it'd take a planet-sized reactor to generate. It doesn't say anything about a specific-but-unnamed power that can do so.

Not just anything that craps out planet killing shots. Which is the system pirates use in the books to destroy a Jurai ship.

It's not just a planet-killing shot, since a planet-sized reactor would create a much larger shot than that, but it makes it pretty clear that a conventional attack could get through the LHW's, though that'd require an insane amount of power.

Otherwise only Ryoko(who was Washu's attempt to create a supreme being) or another wing can stop them.

That's not necessarily true. Kagato indirectly defeats the LHW's on Azusa's ship (essentially bypassing them) and is able to stop ship-Tsunami by way of the configuration of replica-gems in the Soja.

In the manga, the mitsu are a race that actually feed on Light Hawk Wings. Miitsu, the mutated mitsu, was enough of a threat that Tsunami herself came to kill it.

Also in the manga, Yume experimented on the royal tree Bizen, accidently doing something to it that corrupted its LHW's into turning black (Washu said that they'd explode, destroying the entire galaxy).

As an aside, I don't think it's necessarily right to say that Ryoko was created to become a Supreme Being, per se. Washu made her after erasing her own memories, so at most she was fulfilling a subconscious directive.

As to the ship incident that ignores that ship LHW's only borrow power from Tsunami, they aren't accualy made by the ship, this makes them weaker than real wings like Z's. Especially considering they are designed for defense as Aeka said using them for attack makes them vulnirable. Real wings don't suffer that problem. Z can blast planets, fleets, use his wing for attack and defense simutaniously and not suffer the least amount of vulnirability.

That seems like six of one, half-dozen of the other. Regardless of the why of it, there are LHW's out there that are less powerful than other LHW's.

 

[Farealmer3]

I ain't here to debate this with you Alzrius i've had this exact same conversation dozens of times which leads to 5+page flamewars. I'am here to get U_K's opinion not every ones elses, this is why i really need to email him from now on.
An OFFICIAL FAQ from the creators said

14. About the secret of Ko-oh-yoku (Wings of hawk of light?).

Answer:
It is a manifestation of God's aura.

More details ...
Ko-oh-yoku is a manifestation of God's aura and not a weapon. Although apart from Tsunami, one Tree can produce only three Ko-oh-yoku, they are enough to protect the entire ship. Ko-oh-yoku does not shut the incoming energy out but converts it to harmless one (one power exists that could pierce them but it requires huge amount of energy and a very big system).

Incidentally, to increase the number of Ko-oh-yoku by one, twice as much energy is needed. (ie, Tsunami uses 2^10/2^3 = 2^7 = 128 times as much as energy.)

 

[Alzrius]

I ain't here to debate this with you Alzrius i've had this exact same conversation dozens of times which leads to 5+page flamewars.

Well, actually you are here to debate this with me, since you go on to continue defending your point, which is, by definition, debating it. I don't see why you having debated this before means anything though. You've had this conversation dozens of times, I've had it hundreds of times; it's not like that makes you any more right.

I'am here to get U_K's opinion not every ones elses, this is why i really need to email him from now on.

That's probably a good idea.

An OFFICIAL FAQ from the creators said

Yeah, I've been to http://www.rolfotto.com/101_FACTS/TENCHI_101_FACTS.html also. That translation is pretty bad. The actual text of the last sentence (the one in parenthesis) in Japanese begins "hyotto daichikara [ga] aru" which basically translates as "a great power," rather than "one power."

A badly-translated source isn't a reliable one.

And it doesn't matter that much anyway, since Kajishima himself wrote the Jurai novel which flat-out states the part I quoted above, and that's more recent than the "101 Questions and Answers" book you're referring to.

 

[Farealmer3]

it's not like that makes you any more right
.

Never said it did, but thanks for shoving words in my mouth.

That's probably a good idea.

Which is pretty sad accually.

 

[Alzrius]

Never said it did, but thanks for shoving words in my mouth.

I didn't do that; don't shove words in my mouth.

Honestly though, why else would you bother mentioning how many times you've had this discussion before, except as an insinuation that it somehow makes you an expert on the subject (it doesn't, as noted above).

Which is pretty sad accually.

Well, only you seem to think so, since most other people here enjoy the frank debate and exchanges of ideas. But since you don't seem to want to hear any opinion besides U_K's, then email is probably better for you.

 

[Farealmer3]

Honestly though, why else would you bother mentioning how many times you've had this discussion before, except as an insinuation that it somehow makes you an expert on the subject (it doesn't, as noted above).

To convey how i am tired of hearing how much everyone thinks Tenchi sucks and how little they think of it and it's characters. I don't consider myself an expect as i've only seen the films and read faqs, but that doesn't mean i take kindly to people insulting it.

Well, only you seem to think so, since most other people here enjoy the frank debate and exchanges of ideas.

Considering you and me seem to be the only ones who even know who Tenchi is it's not a real debate nor an exchange of ideas.

 

[Alzrius]

To convey how i am tired of hearing how much everyone thinks Tenchi sucks and how little they think of it and it's characters. I don't consider myself an expect as i've only seen the films and read faqs, but that doesn't mean i take kindly to people insulting it.

I'm not insulting it. I love Tenchi Muyo! It was the first anime I ever saw after realizing what anime was.* I think it's a great series, and I've shown it to all of my friends, who think so too. I wouldn't be going over the series in such detail if I didn't like it.

*okay, technically it was the second, the first was Iria, but Tenchi made a much bigger impression on me.

Considering you and me seem to be the only ones who even know who Tenchi is it's not a real debate nor an exchange of ideas.

Well, I meant in general, not this specifically.

 

[Farealmer3]

In the manga, the mitsu are a race that actually feed on Light Hawk Wings. Miitsu, the mutated mitsu, was enough of a threat that Tsunami herself came to kill it.

That reminds me before i put this to close what wings did these guys take out?

 

[mercucio]

ie. If a deity with a phylactery has its manifestation destroyed on its home plane, it will still rejuvenate if it has a phylactery.

What about ghosts, who lack a phylactery, but instead just reform after X days?


Also, doesn't the ability to survive destruction of your manifestation on your home plane imply a level of power far greater than a normal divine ability, since you essentially gain Cosmic String until someone finds you phylactery?

 

[Alzrius]

That reminds me before i put this to close what wings did these guys take out?

None. Ordinarily they feed on the energy by eating royal trees directly, but are easily stopped from doing so since they're otherwise just animals. Miitsu, after her mutation, was the only one capable of directly attacking LHW's (going head-to-head with Tsunami).