NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

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Upper_Krust said:
The Negative energy plane is the doorway to Byss

Wouldn't that make the Negative Energy Plane so much more important than the Positive Energy Plane then, and all of the other outer planes for that matter?

Upper_Krust said:
Moses: 2
Jesus: 3

Moses = Neutral Good Human Cleric 10 (with Planar Dismissal 4th level substitution from page 30 of the Planar Handbook) Prophet with Community/Good/Labor/Travel portfolios?

Jesus = Neutral Good Human Cleric 15 (with Planar Dismissal 4th level substitution from page 30 of the Planar Handbook) Hero-deity with Good/Love/Peace porftolios?

Does that sound good? Or should I bump up their cleric levels and/or DvR? I can't decide on which portfolios to give them though, since they qualify for a various number of them.

Upper_Krust said:
See Algol (Old One) in Gods & Monsters.

Is there a reason why you were free to use names like Shub-Niggurath, Abhoth, and Daoloth but not Azathoth? Also, the Bestiary says that Algol is an old one from the Far Place while your website says that Algol is the old one of Limbo. Which is it?

Upper_Krust said:
The super-cluster killed it and took its stuff.

So the Prime Material Plane is only 200 million light years across then? Assuming they don't get assaulted by neutronium golems or whatnot, which dimension does a person that reaches the "end of the prime material" in up in?

Upper_Krust said:
The latter. They are in between Sidereals and Eternals.

There's a big wide gap between the power level of Kardashev V/Cosmic Abstracts and Kardashev VI/True Beyonders then. Is there anything that can fill this gap?

Edit: On a side note, I participated in a thread (now dead) on a particular imageboard regarding what could defend the planet from a Ceres-sized meteor in D&D. I calculated that the meteor would have around 30,720 hp and that Surtur could inflict an average damage of 41,188 damage by full-attacking the meteor using his Sword of Revenge with full Uncanny Power Attack and Cosmic Strike, thus destroying the meteor in one round. I also calculated that if a Strength of 163 is enough for a Medium humanoid to throw a human to the moon using Throw Attack or Mighty, a Titanic giant such as Surtur with a Strength of only 144 would be able to do the same if he had Throw Attack or Mighty Attack. Surtur briefly became a sort of super-superhero on the imageboard after that. Everybody there also asked why the Michelin Man was on the cover of the Epic Bestiary.
 
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Hey dante mate! :)

dante58701 said:
When's the next update???

I am off work for a week from Wednesday, so I'll sort something out during that time.

Another question...how do deities sense their followers exactly?

I mean, they thoroughly detail this in deities and demigods, but I don't see anything on this in Ascension, or anything on how exactly they manipulate their godly realms.

Godly realms would be covered in depth in Chronicle.

I don't think deities would necessarily sense their followers unless they were specifically concentrating/looking for them. Certainly they would sense any within their divine aura or realm. They would also be permanently connected to anyone who channelled divine spells through them.


That link didn't work for me...everyone else see it okay?

I was wondering, if you were to create advanced beings...what would they be and in what manner would one become one.

Advanced beings use psionics and magic to evolve into inhuman monsters (avangions, dragons, elementals, ect.)

I'll need to see the article first.

Adslahnit, I'll need to wait until tomorrow to reply to your post (sorry dude).
 

http://www.athas.org/

This link should work...unless they're having problems with their site. If all else fails you can always google it.

But it sums up to this.

20th level psionic manifester (psion, erudite, or wilder) who is also a 20th level spellcaster (cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard, ect.) combines both psionics and magic to undergo an unnatural evolution into a completely different creature (avangion, dragon, or elemental) of tremendous size and power.

This new form quite literally becomes their new race and is applied over a period of 10 levels as 10 separate templates. Each level requiring the use of an Epic Spell to reach as well as the appropriate amount of experience.

These "advanced beings" each come with their own 10 level prestige class and their own series of metamorphosis spells. 10 different epic spells each, one for each evolution.

Avangions are preservers (manifester/arcane spellcaster) that dont defile the land with their spells. To date there is only one Avangion and he's in hiding.

Dragons are defilers (manifester/arcane spellcaster) that defile the land with their spells (basically taking feats that allow them to turn plants to ash in order to fuel their spells with more powerful effects). To date their are many dragons and they rule the world.

Elementals are manifester/divine spellcasters that seek to preserve the land as well and wish to restore the land to it's natural state. They are basically at odds with defilers much in the same way preservers are. Unfortunately for all...defilers are very common. To date, noone is really sure how many elementals their are.

Here's the Avangion...it says the dragon file is too large to upload. If you'd like it I spose I could send it by way of email.

Hopefully this gives you an idea about the mechanics involved.
 

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UK,

What happens when a deity with an energy vulnerbility from a portfolio takes Energy Immunity for that energy type? I.e. a Fire deity takes Energy Immunity (Cold). Are they forbidden to take Energy Immunity? Does Energy Immunity trump their vulnerbility? Does Energy Immunity simply allow them to take normal damage, ect.
 


Hey there! :)

mercucio said:
UK,

What happens when a deity with an energy vulnerbility from a portfolio takes Energy Immunity for that energy type? I.e. a Fire deity takes Energy Immunity (Cold). Are they forbidden to take Energy Immunity? Does Energy Immunity trump their vulnerbility? Does Energy Immunity simply allow them to take normal damage, ect.

The (opposed) portfolio would forbid them.
 

How so? That's not written down anywhere. Not to mention there are a lot of creatures that are immune to fire that may very well have an explicit interest in cold or vice versa. Devils for instance.

For these reasons...and a few others...that would make no sense.

Kinda like outsiders all being divinities really makes no sense (particularly since WOTC explicitly states that not all outsiders are divinities, and that demons, daemons, and devils...with the exception of the lords and princes, ect. are most certainly NOT divine).

I just keep disregarding the NO DOUBLE DIPPING rule. =^.^=

Yeah, I know, I'm a cheeky bastard. =^.^=

Oh yeah...divinities sensing things withing their aura and sensing their followers...exactly where and when are you going to lay that all out officially?
 
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Okay, a whole new bunch of questions this time around (forgive me for not knowing that much about it since I don't have the Ascension beta):

1.) What is the guideline for setting market price modifiers for divine/cosmic/transcendental/omnific abilities as epic weapon special abilities? Opening/Striking and Shredding are both +6, and they both have equivalent divine abilities (Superior Critical and Obliterating Critical, respectively). Unerring is only +25, but you already stated that it's inferior to Perfect Attack (a transcendental ability) since the latter applies to any attack you make. Would an epic weapon special ability that replicates Perfect Defence also have a +25 market price bonus?

Additionally, you stated earlier in this thread that an epic special weapon ability that converted all damage to permanent damage would have a +36 market price bonus. Would you still say it's worth a +36 bonus? Also, how much would you price a special weapon ability that makes the weapon automatically resize to an appropriate size for the wielder? It shouldn't be that expensive, but it's still quite a worthwhile ability.

2.) You highly recommend (and borderline enforce) that a weapon's enhancement bonus should be equal to or greater than the total price bonus of its special abilities. So you could have an unerring (+25), flashing (+25), echoing (+25), shining nexus (+25), holy scion (+25), universal energy blast (+15), opening/striking (+6), shredding (+6), vorpal (+5) weapon as long as it had a +157 enhancement bonus. However, how does this work out with extremely expensive weapon special materials such as Dark Matter?

For example, would an unerring, flashing, echoing, shining nexus, holy scion, universal energy blast, opening/striking, shredding, vorpal weapon with a +157 enhancement bonus that was also made of Dark Matter (+26,542,000,000 gp) fall under your "enhancement bonus must be greater than or equal to special weapon ability total bonus" policy?

3.) From what I understand, Anyfeat gives you a free feat on-the-fly, Divine Inspiration gives you a divine ability, Cosmic Inspiration gives you a cosmic ability, and Transpiration gives you a transcendental ability. However, would you need Nescience to acquire a feat using Anyfeat that you didn't meet the prerequisites for, Divine Nescience for Divine Inspiration, Cosmic Nescience for Cosmic Inspiration, and Transnescience for Transpiration?

4.) Transmortality lets you regain 1 HD for each day that passes after your apparent destruction, is that correct? How would you rate (divine/cosmic/transcendental/omnific) an ability that lets you shorten the regeneration period to 1 HD for each hour? How about an ability that lets you further shorten the regeneration period to one HD per minute? What about 1 HD per round? And taking things to the extreme, what about instantaneous regeneration?

5.) All immortals (and higher ranks) are immune to natural effects such as ability damage, disease, natural elements (cold, drowning, fire, lava, lightning etc.), poison and so forth. Does this extend to extreme natural effects such as being incinerated by the core of the sun (166,666d6 fire damage) or a nuclear fusion reactor (1,666,666d6 fire damage), being sucked into a black hole, being blasted by the shockwave and neutrino flux of a supernova, taking a fall from 9001 miles high, or taking a ground-zero explosion from a 150-petaton nuke?

6.) Does immunity to ability damage protect against the radiation of a nuke, immunity to fire protect against a nuke's fire damage, and immunity to bludgeoning damage protect against a nuke's shockwave? Also, how do you set a nuke's Fortitude save DC (for negating the disintegration and halving the other damage) for actual technological nuclear warheads? The spells use epic spell DCs and the golems' death throes use monster special quality DCs, but what about for nuke "items"?

7.) If two neotic/adamic/nehaschimic dragons that both somehow possessed the [Effect] that ages the opponent (forgot which one it was) meet together and start pummeling each other with that [Effect], do they both gain age categories and thus get stronger as they rapidly age?

8.) What exactly does "kosmically localized" mean? Does have something to do with how each universe has the same basic setup and history (angels seal old ones into planes, dimensional guardians get organized with different agendas, etc).

9.) The Supreme Being is just a title for the most powerful high lord, meaning there is no Supreme Being template, correct? Then what would the Alpha and Omega templates be if the latter is supposedly the antithesis of the Supreme Being? Also, wouldn't that make the Akashic Library the rulebooks of the game and the 11th dimension the DM and his players' gaming table?

10.) The bestiary lists down pure orichalcum as weighing 1e7 grams per cubic meter and pure neutronium as weighing 1e14 grams per cubic meter. Pure iron weighs 7.86 grams per cubic centimeter, so orichalcum weighs 1,272,265 times as much and neutronium weighs 12,722,646,310,433 times as much. However, the Bestiary's entry for orichalcum as a special material lists it down as 2,097,152 or 8^7 times as dense as iron, and the website's entry for neutronium lists it down as 35,184,000,000,000 or 8^15 times as dense as iron (probably to simplify the 64x weight = x2 damage rules for VSCs). Wouldn't this cause a discrepancy between the weights of objects made from "true" orichalcum/neutronium and "special material" orichalcum/neutronium?

11.) On your website, you list down Strongly Symmetric Matter as a material that is roughly 1e34 times as dense as neutronium (but no stats were given). However, I've found that there is an even denser possible material. Specifically, a material with matter having the density of Planck density. I would call this material "Planck material". Planck material has a density of roughly 5.1e93 grams per cubic centimeter, making it roughly 6.489e92 times as dense as iron (7.86 grams per cubic centimeter) or 5.1e79 times as dense as neutronium (1e14 grams per cubic meter).

As a special material (taking account simplifying weights to match the VSC rules' 64x weight = x2 damage), Planck material would have a weight modifier of x1.043e93 or 8^103 and would require a Strength of 1555 to wield a weapon made out of it. It would also have a damage modifier of x3,377,699,720,527,872 or (3 * 2^50). A greatsword made out of Planck material would deal 6,755,399,441,055,744d6 damage while a Planck material greataxe would deal 3,377,699,720,527,872d12 damage. Both would deal an average of 21,955,048,183,431,168 damage.

Now what I need to know is the formula for special material weapon cost modifers, shield cost modifiers, heavy armor modifiers, medium armor modifiers, and light armor modifiers. I can't seem to discern any formula for them based on the Bestiary's entry for orichalcum and the website's entry for neutronium alone. Care to fill me in?

Edit: Fixed my stupid typo.
 
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dante58701 said:
How so? That's not written down anywhere.

*Goes and types it into Ascension*

Yes it is.

Not to mention there are a lot of creatures that are immune to fire that may very well have an explicit interest in cold or vice versa. Devils for instance.

Tough on them.

For these reasons...and a few others...that would make no sense.

That doesn't seem like a good enough reason to me, but feel free to Rule 0 it.

Kinda like outsiders all being divinities really makes no sense

Wrong, all outsiders are immortals, not deities. Its all in the wording.

(particularly since WOTC explicitly states that not all outsiders are divinities, and that demons, daemons, and devils...with the exception of the lords and princes, ect. are most certainly NOT divine).

They [lords and princes] make more sense as deities.

I don't consider tieflings and so forth immortal, nor are humans born in the outer planes immortal. Spirits/Spirit Beings (ie. True Outsiders) are immortal.

I just keep disregarding the NO DOUBLE DIPPING rule. =^.^=

Yeah, I know, I'm a cheeky bastard. =^.^=

Watch that potty mouth.

Oh yeah...divinities sensing things withing their aura and sensing their followers...exactly where and when are you going to lay that all out officially?

I'll make a note of it.
 

Adslahnit said:
Okay, a whole new bunch of questions this time around (forgive me for not knowing that much about it since I don't have the Ascension beta):

In that case anything answered in Ascension will have the answer. Read Ascension.

1.) What is the guideline for setting market price modifiers for divine/cosmic/transcendental/omnific abilities as epic weapon special abilities? Opening/Striking and Shredding are both +6, and they both have equivalent divine abilities (Superior Critical and Obliterating Critical, respectively). Unerring is only +25, but you already stated that it's inferior to Perfect Attack (a transcendental ability) since the latter applies to any attack you make. Would an epic weapon special ability that replicates Perfect Defence also have a +25 market price bonus?

Read Ascension. Although I think you have it guessed well enough.

Additionally, you stated earlier in this thread that an epic special weapon ability that converted all damage to permanent damage would have a +36 market price bonus. Would you still say it's worth a +36 bonus?

Possibly.

Also, how much would you price a special weapon ability that makes the weapon automatically resize to an appropriate size for the wielder? It shouldn't be that expensive, but it's still quite a worthwhile ability.

Certainly non-epic. Maybe +2...? Not counting VSCs.

2.) You highly recommend (and borderline enforce) that a weapon's enhancement bonus should be equal to or greater than the total price bonus of its special abilities. So you could have an unerring (+25), flashing (+25), echoing (+25), shining nexus (+25), holy scion (+25), universal energy blast (+15), opening/striking (+6), shredding (+6), vorpal (+5) weapon as long as it had a +157 enhancement bonus.

Yes, its about limiting the pluses as much as possible to keep the d20 relevant for as long as possible.

See it as a microcosm for 4E.

However, how does this work out with extremely expensive weapon special materials such as Dark Matter?

Treat Dark Matter as a Special Weapon ability for the purposes of its integration.

For example, would an unerring, flashing, echoing, shining nexus, holy scion, universal energy blast, opening/striking, shredding, vorpal weapon with a +157 enhancement bonus that was also made of Dark Matter (+26,542,000,000 gp) fall under your "enhancement bonus must be greater than or equal to special weapon ability total bonus" policy?

Itfalls under the weapon special ability modifier.

3.) From what I understand, Anyfeat gives you a free feat on-the-fly, Divine Inspiration gives you a divine ability, Cosmic Inspiration gives you a cosmic ability, and Transpiration gives you a transcendental ability. However, would you need Nescience to acquire a feat using Anyfeat that you didn't meet the prerequisites for, Divine Nescience for Divine Inspiration, Cosmic Nescience for Cosmic Inspiration, and Transnescience for Transpiration?

Correct.

4.) Transmortality lets you regain 1 HD for each day that passes after your apparent destruction, is that correct? How would you rate (divine/cosmic/transcendental/omnific) an ability that lets you shorten the regeneration period to 1 HD for each hour? How about an ability that lets you further shorten the regeneration period to one HD per minute? What about 1 HD per round? And taking things to the extreme, what about instantaneous regeneration?

Transmortality coupled with Transtemporal would allow instantaneous regen...although you couldn't attack someone with Slipstream for the normal duration.

5.) All immortals (and higher ranks) are immune to natural effects such as ability damage, disease, natural elements (cold, drowning, fire, lava, lightning etc.), poison and so forth. Does this extend to extreme natural effects such as being incinerated by the core of the sun (166,666d6 fire damage) or a nuclear fusion reactor (1,666,666d6 fire damage), being sucked into a black hole, being blasted by the shockwave and neutrino flux of a supernova, taking a fall from 9001 miles high, or taking a ground-zero explosion from a 150-petaton nuke?

No. I would suggest these sort of celestial (as opposed to terrestrial and thus mundane) effects still affect immortals, the one exception might be the cold and vacuum of space itself.

But feel free to Rule 0 this.

6.) Does immunity to ability damage protect against the radiation of a nuke, immunity to fire protect against a nuke's fire damage, and immunity to bludgeoning damage protect against a nuke's shockwave?

Yes. But I should add with the caveat that I hate immunities.

Also, how do you set a nuke's Fortitude save DC (for negating the disintegration and halving the other damage) for actual technological nuclear warheads? The spells use epic spell DCs and the golems' death throes use monster special quality DCs, but what about for nuke "items"?

I am sure this is explained in the Bestiaruy under the Kiloton spell.

7.) If two neotic/adamic/nehaschimic dragons that both somehow possessed the [Effect] that ages the opponent (forgot which one it was) meet together and start pummeling each other with that [Effect], do they both gain age categories and thus get stronger as they rapidly age?

They wouldn't gain normal age categories, nor would they gain any special abilities. They might gain more Hit Dice but they would gain no other powers associated with becoming older. In effect their power would be stunted even as their bodies grew.

8.) What exactly does "kosmically localized" mean? Does have something to do with how each universe has the same basic setup and history (angels seal old ones into planes, dimensional guardians get organized with different agendas, etc).

Kosmically localized means that each planet has their own outer planes. So a million inhabited planets have a million different hells and so forth. However, just like we can travel from one planet to another. So too can the devils of one hell meet up with devils of another. So these other Hells still occupy the same plane/layers, simply that they are very far apart.

Once people of one world discover another world, so too do their respective Hells meet each other.

9.) The Supreme Being is just a title for the most powerful high lord, meaning there is no Supreme Being table, correct?

Technically.

Then what would the Alpha and Omega templates be if the latter is supposedly the antithesis of the Supreme Being?

At this juncture there may never be an Alpha or Omega Template. They don't rate highly on my list of priorities.

Also, wouldn't that make the Akashic Library the rulebooks of the game and the 11th dimension the DM and his players' gaming table?

Read Ascension. ;)

10.) The bestiary lists down pure orichalcum as weighing 1e7 grams per cubic meter and pure neutronium as weighing 1e14 grams per cubic meter. Pure iron weighs 7.86 grams per cubic centimeter, so orichalcum weighs 1,272,265 times as much and neutronium weighs 12,722,646,310,433 times as much. However, the Bestiary's entry for orichalcum as a special material lists it down as 2,097,152 or 8^7 times as dense as iron, and the website's entry for neutronium lists it down as 35,184,000,000,000 or 8^15 times as dense as iron (probably to simplify the 64x weight = x2 damage rules for VSCs). Wouldn't this cause a discrepancy between the weights of objects made from "true" orichalcum/neutronium and "special material" orichalcum/neutronium?

Who is to say what true Orichalcum purity is.

11.) On your website, you list down Strongly Symmetric Matter as a material that is roughly 1e34 times as dense as neutronium (but no stats were given). However, I've found that there is an even denser possible material. Specifically, a material with matter having the density of Planck density. I would call this material "Planck material". Planck material has a density of roughly 5.1e93 grams per cubic centimeter, making it roughly 6.489e92 times as dense as iron (7.86 grams per cubic centimeter) or 5.1e79 times as dense as neutronium (1e14 grams per cubic meter).

Are you sure? SSM 'is' Planck Material.

As a special material (taking account simplifying weights to match the VSC rules' 64x weight = x2 damage), Planck material would have a weight modifier of x1.043e93 or 8^103 and would require a Strength of 1555 to wield a weapon made out of it. It would also have a damage modifier of x3,377,699,720,527,872 or (3 * 2^50). A greatsword made out of Planck material would deal 6,755,399,441,055,744d6 damage while a Planck material greataxe would deal 3,377,699,720,527,872d12 damage. Both would deal an average of 21,955,048,183,431,168 damage.

If you say so. I'm not going over the math for something I can't see ever being used. Planck Material should just deal infinite damage.

Now what I need to know is the formula for special material weapon cost modifers, shield cost modifiers, heavy armor modifiers, medium armor modifiers, and light armor modifiers. I can't seem to discern any formula for them based on the Bestiary's entry for orichalcum and the website's entry for neutronium alone. Care to fill me in?

In the Bestiary it lists the market modifier by virtual size categories under the orichalcum table. It should be easy to extrapolate from there.
 

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