NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[EarthSeraphEdna]

In that case anything answered in Ascension will have the answer. Read Ascension.

It's kinda difficult to read something I don't have... but I guess I'll wait.

No. I would suggest these sort of celestial (as opposed to terrestrial and thus mundane) effects still affect immortals, the one exception might be the cold and vacuum of space itself.

How much gravitic damage would being teleported into a black hole cause? 50d6 percent? Nah, just kidding.

I am sure this is explained in the Bestiaruy under the Kiloton spell.

Kiloton simply uses the saving throw DC formula for epic spells, [20 + relevant spellcasting ability modifier]. So a wizard with 80 Intelligence would cast a Kiloton with a Fortitude save DC of 55. The golems use the formula for special abilities, [10 + ½ the creature's HD + relevant ability modifier], with Constitution being the relevant ability here since it's a "death throes" ability, but golems have null Constitution. So a 250 HD golem (like the neutronium golem) would have its Starquake Fortitude save DC at 135. What I'm asking is how Fortitude save DCs are set for actual, physical nuclear warheads. The 50-megaton Tsar Bomba wouldn't be able to use the epic spell DC formula nor the monster special ability DC formula.

Kosmically localized means that each planet has their own outer planes. So a million inhabited planets have a million different hells and so forth. However, just like we can travel from one planet to another. So too can the devils of one hell meet up with devils of another. So these other Hells still occupy the same plane/layers, simply that they are very far apart.

Once people of one world discover another world, so too do their respective Hells meet each other.

So that means Demogorgon, Orcus, Asmodeus, and all of the other archfiends we all know and love/hate would be part of the "default" planet's hell? Or do they have alternate versions for different planets, such as Earth-Demogorgon, Random Planet 126-Demogorgon, Random Planet 372-Demogorgon, etc.?

Are you sure? SSM 'is' Planck Material.

The website states that strongly symmetric matter is roughly 1e34 times as dense as neutronium. Matter having Planck density would be 5.1e79 times as dense as neutronium. That could, however, be simply a conflict of information, since strongly symmetric matter is "basically the mass of the entire universe in a single object", exactly what Planck density is supposed to be.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello!

It's kinda difficult to read something I don't have... but I guess I'll wait.

Yes.

How much gravitic damage would being teleported into a black hole cause? 50d6 percent? Nah, just kidding.

Depends on the size of the black hole.

Kiloton simply uses the saving throw DC formula for epic spells, [20 + relevant spellcasting ability modifier]. So a wizard with 80 Intelligence would cast a Kiloton with a Fortitude save DC of 55. The golems use the formula for special abilities, [10 + ½ the creature's HD + relevant ability modifier], with Constitution being the relevant ability here since it's a "death throes" ability, but golems have null Constitution. So a 250 HD golem (like the neutronium golem) would have its Starquake Fortitude save DC at 135. What I'm asking is how Fortitude save DCs are set for actual, physical nuclear warheads. The 50-megaton Tsar Bomba wouldn't be able to use the epic spell DC formula nor the monster special ability DC formula.

Good question. I'll have to sleep on it.

So that means Demogorgon, Orcus, Asmodeus, and all of the other archfiends we all know and love/hate would be part of the "default" planet's hell?

Not necessarily. One might have those Demon Lords another might have the Warhammer Gods of Chaos, and yet another might have the Moorcock Lords of Chaos.

Or do they have alternate versions for different planets, such as Earth-Demogorgon, Random Planet 126-Demogorgon, Random Planet 372-Demogorgon, etc.?

They have whatever you want them to have.

The website states that strongly symmetric matter is roughly 1e34 times as dense as neutronium. Matter having Planck density would be 5.1e79 times as dense as neutronium. That could, however, be simply a conflict of information, since strongly symmetric matter is "basically the mass of the entire universe in a single object", exactly what Planck density is supposed to be.

Indeed.

 

[dante58701]

So...the "real world" is it the omniverse? Earth? Or how does our universe work by comparison.

Does each planet contain it's own Heaven and Hell? Or are the Heaven and Hells just that vast?

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Alright, all I know about artifacts is that you can have only four of them, that each one can have a total bonus of (Your ECL ÷ 2) for items that use the price formula (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) or a total bonus of (Your ECL ÷ 2.8) for items and weapons that use the price formula (Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp), and that weapons must have their enhancement bonus making up at least half of the bonus.

An item that grants a feat is worth a +1 bonus while an item that grants a divine ability is worth a +6 bonus (with certain exceptions), and most of these fall under the (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) category of artifacts. Ability bonuses also use the (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) formula.

Going by this rule, can a character have four artifacts which are literally just stackable duplicates of each other? An ECL 360 character could have four artifacts that each grant Automatic Metamagic Capacity x180 (each feat is worth +1), and with four of those he could have AMC x720. That seems a little overpowered to me, especially when you combine it with Alter Reality (the version that all sidereals get that lets them fire off free spells depending on their AMCs).

However, the same ECL 360 character couldn't have four artifacts that each give +180 to a single ability score for a total of +720 to a single ability score, since each +180 is an enhancement bonus, and enhancement bonuses to a single stat don't stack. Does the artifact system have a built-in limitation on this sort of "single bonus stacking" that I'm not aware of? One that can limit hoarding AMCs to enhance Alter Reality?

tl;dr (Too Long; Didn't Read) = Is there anything preventing an ECL 360 character from taking four artifacts that each grant Automatic Metamagic Capacity x180 for a total of AMC x720? Or is it completely legal and fair game for an ECL 360 character to do such a thing?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

So...the "real world" is it the omniverse? Earth? Or how does our universe work by comparison.

Does each planet contain it's own Heaven and Hell? Or are the Heaven and Hells just that vast?

Lets say you have two maps. The first is a map of the prime material plane ('universe'). The second is a map of the fifth layer of Hell.

Both are theoretically infinite in size.

When you overlap these two maps the area with your planet will touch the bit with the fifth layer of Hell that you recognise - ie. YOUR fifth layer of Hell.

Now, if we go to a galaxy, far, far away, and point to a different (inhabited) planet. It will touch a different bit of the fifth layer of Hell.

When explorers from these two worlds meet, so too do their Hellish counterparts.

 

[jedrious]

Alright, all I know about artifacts is that you can have only four of them, that each one can have a total bonus of (Your ECL ÷ 2) for items that use the price formula (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) or a total bonus of (Your ECL ÷ 2.8) for items and weapons that use the price formula (Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp), and that weapons must have their enhancement bonus making up at least half of the bonus.

An item that grants a feat is worth a +1 bonus while an item that grants a divine ability is worth a +6 bonus (with certain exceptions), and most of these fall under the (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) category of artifacts. Ability bonuses also use the (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) formula.

Going by this rule, can a character have four artifacts which are literally just stackable duplicates of each other? An ECL 360 character could have four artifacts that each grant Automatic Metamagic Capacity x180 (each feat is worth +1), and with four of those he could have AMC x720. That seems a little overpowered to me, especially when you combine it with Alter Reality (the version that all sidereals get that lets them fire off free spells depending on their AMCs).

However, the same ECL 360 character couldn't have four artifacts that each give +180 to a single ability score for a total of +720 to a single ability score, since each +180 is an enhancement bonus, and enhancement bonuses to a single stat don't stack. Does the artifact system have a built-in limitation on this sort of "single bonus stacking" that I'm not aware of? One that can limit hoarding AMCs to enhance Alter Reality?

try having an artifact that grants multiple iterations of Great [Ability Score] feats

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Now, if we go to a galaxy, far, far away, and point to a different (inhabited) planet. It will touch a different bit of the fifth layer of Hell.

How exactly does that happen? Let's say Planet A sends a magical spaceship that lands on Planet B, and the explorers meet the natives of the new planet. How does Hell A "meet up" with Hell B in that case?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy adslahnit!

Alright, all I know about artifacts is that you can have only four of them, that each one can have a total bonus of (Your ECL ÷ 2) for items that use the price formula (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) or a total bonus of (Your ECL ÷ 2.8) for items and weapons that use the price formula (Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp), and that weapons must have their enhancement bonus making up at least half of the bonus.

An item that grants a feat is worth a +1 bonus while an item that grants a divine ability is worth a +6 bonus (with certain exceptions), and most of these fall under the (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) category of artifacts. Ability bonuses also use the (Bonus^2 * 10,000 gp) formula.

Going by this rule, can a character have four artifacts which are literally just stackable duplicates of each other? An ECL 360 character could have four artifacts that each grant Automatic Metamagic Capacity x180 (each feat is worth +1), and with four of those he could have AMC x720. That seems a little overpowered to me, especially when you combine it with Alter Reality (the version that all sidereals get that lets them fire off free spells depending on their AMCs).

However, the same ECL 360 character couldn't have four artifacts that each give +180 to a single ability score for a total of +720 to a single ability score, since each +180 is an enhancement bonus, and enhancement bonuses to a single stat don't stack. Does the artifact system have a built-in limitation on this sort of "single bonus stacking" that I'm not aware of? One that can limit hoarding AMCs to enhance Alter Reality?

tl;dr (Too Long; Didn't Read) = Is there anything preventing an ECL 360 character from taking four artifacts that each grant Automatic Metamagic Capacity x180 for a total of AMC x720? Or is it completely legal and fair game for an ECL 360 character to do such a thing?

Duplicate items don't work (you just take the most powerful) - I am sure that is stated in the Dungeon Masters Guide.

 

[dante58701]

Why is Alter Reality different for Sidreals? Shouldn't it be the same? This would certainly simplify the mechanics. And that Cosmic Serpent ability...why is that not detailed?

Does a Sidreal have to take Alter Reality and Cosmic Serpent twice to get the standard cosmic versions of those abilities...if so...what's the point of even giving them two different types of Alter Reality and Cosmic Serpent? This is desperately in need of clarification and/or fixing.

Thanks for clearing up that bit on the different galaxies. It's what I figured, now...an Old One...is it known in all galaxies?

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Duplicate items don't work (you just take the most powerful) - I am sure that is stated in the Dungeon Masters Guide.

True, true, but we're talking about items in different slots that add a stackable bonus. Wearing four items, each in a different slot, that each grant 180 feat would grant you 720 feats, correct? So wouldn't AMC x720 be countable as those feats?

That's min-maxing logic, I suppose.