NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hey adslahnit!

How exactly does that happen? Let's say Planet A sends a magical spaceship that lands on Planet B, and the explorers meet the natives of the new planet. How does Hell A "meet up" with Hell B in that case?

The spirit realm derives from the mortal realm. Lawful evil spirits from your world travel to afterlife in the Nine Hells.

When cultures meet there is a sharing of information, including religion.

e.g. In the court of Genghis Khan virtually every religion was catered for.

The 'meeting' of the Hells in this example, is merely a metaphor of this coming together of religions/ethics.

 

[Upper_Krust]

hiya matey!

Why is Alter Reality different for Sidreals? Shouldn't it be the same? This would certainly simplify the mechanics. And that Cosmic Serpent ability...why is that not detailed?

Its a mistake.

Does a Sidreal have to take Alter Reality and Cosmic Serpent twice to get the standard cosmic versions of those abilities...if so...what's the point of even giving them two different types of Alter Reality and Cosmic Serpent? This is desperately in need of clarification and/or fixing.

Indeed.

Thanks for clearing up that bit on the different galaxies.

It's what I figured, now...an Old One...is it known in all galaxies?

You could argue that the dimensional prison walls that incarcerate the sidereals correspond to each dimension and thus each sidereal touches each dimensionplane at some point.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello!

True, true, but we're talking about items in different slots that add a stackable bonus. Wearing four items, each in a different slot, that each grant 180 feat would grant you 720 feats, correct? So wouldn't AMC x720 be countable as those feats?

That's min-maxing logic, I suppose.

A feat counts as a bonus in this case (in terms of stacking the same feat that is).

 

[mercucio]

UK,

The section on Compacts contradicts the "Gained" paragraphs under disciple and prophet. One of these needs revising. According to Compacts creating a disciple costs 1000qp and prophet costs 10,000qp. According to the Gained paragraphs disciples in excess of your divine rank cost 10,000qp and each prophet past the first costs 100,000qp.

Since acquiring the disciple template requires 10-99qp and the prophet template requires 100-999qp I'm inclined to say neither method is actually accurate.

 

[Pssthpok]

there's a 100.1 ratio of exchange in IHB.

if you put 1000 QP into an object, it only "holds" 100, and anyone using the item for QP would only benefit from 10.

Likewise, if you want to 'make' a quasi-deity out of your cohort, he'd need 10,000 QP (net gain), which means he'd need a net invested value (in himself or a soul object or whatever) of 100,000 QP, which would require an expense of 1,000,000 QP (out of pocket QP cost).

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

When determining the total bonus of an artifact weapon, do special materials count as going towards the bonus or do they count as a flat price increase? For example, let's take an ECL 360 character, so his weapon could have a +64 enhancement bonus and +64 worth of abilities, but he wants the weapon to be made of pure orichalcum (+25,920,000 gp):

Option A - Special materials count as part of the weapon bonus. Pure orichalcum adds +25,920,000 gp to the price of a weapon. This price modifier comes from the formula [Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp], the bonus in this case being +36. Thus, the weapon could have a +64 enhancement bonus and +28 worth of special abilities, since +36 of the special ability budget is taken up by the orichalcum property.

Option B - Special materials add a flat price modifier to the weapon. A weapon with a total bonus of +128, using the formula [Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp], would have a price of 327,680,000 gp. Subtract 25,920,000 (the price modifier for orichalucum weapons) and we get a remaining price of 301,760,000 gp. The closest we can get to a weapon with that price is a weapon with a total bonus of +122, which would cost 297,680,000 gp using the formula [Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp]. Thus, the weapon could have a +64 enhancement bonus and +58 worth of special abilities, a small fraction of the budget taken up by the orichalcum property.

Which option should we use? Option B makes special weapon materials much more cost-efficient over Option A, but it might be overpowered.

 

[mercucio]

there's a 100.1 ratio of exchange in IHB.

if you put 1000 QP into an object, it only "holds" 100, and anyone using the item for QP would only benefit from 10.

Likewise, if you want to 'make' a quasi-deity out of your cohort, he'd need 10,000 QP (net gain), which means he'd need a net invested value (in himself or a soul object or whatever) of 100,000 QP, which would require an expense of 1,000,000 QP (out of pocket QP cost).

Soul objects != compacts. If you re-read the two sections you'll see they use different mechanics.

 

[Pssthpok]

But it's largely the same idea, mercucio. Invest 10, get 1; it's just sometimes there's a third step: invest 10, net 1, use 1/10.

 

[Upper_Krust]

UK,

Hiya mate!

The section on Compacts contradicts the "Gained" paragraphs under disciple and prophet. One of these needs revising. According to Compacts creating a disciple costs 1000qp and prophet costs 10,000qp. According to the Gained paragraphs disciples in excess of your divine rank cost 10,000qp and each prophet past the first costs 100,000qp.

Since acquiring the disciple template requires 10-99qp and the prophet template requires 100-999qp I'm inclined to say neither method is actually accurate.

Pssthpok has already answered this one (thanks dude).

But just to explain my reasoning a tad...the power within the templates (ECL) doesn't marry perfectly with the number of QP such beings have. I was more interested in balancing the QP/WP with regards worshippers than with CR/ECL.

So you have a situation whereby QP/WP for each status increases so much that it vastly outstrips the power inherent in the previous status.

i.e. God power (in terms of encounter level, CR or whatever) increases at (approx.) the square root of the QP gain.

So a Lesser Deity may have 100 times more QP than a Quasi-deity, but its only (on average) ten times as powerful.

A Greater Deity may have 10,000 times more QP than a quasi-deity but its only 100 times more powerful.

Now the problem arises when you use QP to create other immortals. If the Greater Deity was able to straight swop its QP it could easily create 5000 quasi-deities by expending just half its QP. That means it can create a force 50 times more powerful than itself.

Now you can argue that at that spread of power even 5000 quasi-deities won't be able to kill it because the differences will be too great (akin to 5000 1st-level characters vs. a 30th-level character). But I still don't like to give that much away.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi adslahnit mate!

When determining the total bonus of an artifact weapon, do special materials count as going towards the bonus or do they count as a flat price increase? For example, let's take an ECL 360 character, so his weapon could have a +64 enhancement bonus and +64 worth of abilities, but he wants the weapon to be made of pure orichalcum (+25,920,000 gp):

Option A - Special materials count as part of the weapon bonus. Pure orichalcum adds +25,920,000 gp to the price of a weapon. This price modifier comes from the formula [Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp], the bonus in this case being +36. Thus, the weapon could have a +64 enhancement bonus and +28 worth of special abilities, since +36 of the special ability budget is taken up by the orichalcum property.

Option B - Special materials add a flat price modifier to the weapon. A weapon with a total bonus of +128, using the formula [Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp], would have a price of 327,680,000 gp. Subtract 25,920,000 (the price modifier for orichalucum weapons) and we get a remaining price of 301,760,000 gp. The closest we can get to a weapon with that price is a weapon with a total bonus of +122, which would cost 297,680,000 gp using the formula [Bonus^2 * 20,000 gp]. Thus, the weapon could have a +64 enhancement bonus and +58 worth of special abilities, a small fraction of the budget taken up by the orichalcum property.

Which option should we use? Option B makes special weapon materials much more cost-efficient over Option A, but it might be overpowered.

Use whichever option you feel comfortable with.

I would treat special materials as part of the weapons special ability bonus - but thats just me.