NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[WarDragon]

*sigh* Dante, even from the depths of my ignore list, your stupidity reaches out to irk me. You apparently missed the fact that under U_K's system of four artifacts, the Epic item creation feats do not exist. Ergo, no magic item that doesn't spring directly from a deity or epic character's personal power can exceed the non-Epic cap. Your argument is hollow, and you fall flat on your face. As usual.

 

[dante58701]

I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere. Must have missed that. So no Wardragon, it wasn't stupidity...it was ignorance.

But I still disagree with it since I believe in Epic Items not necessarily being artifacts.

I happen to not make too much use of that part of Krusty's rule set. It's called house ruling...you might want to try it sometime.

Ur just threatened by my brilliance. Perhaps even a bit jealous. And since you've now made this personal with your comments about my intelligence.

I would like to take this time to tell you to kindly put me back on your (nonexistent) "ignore" list.

Besides...I don't believe I was talking to you at all...was I?

I would complain about you...but truthfully...I don't care to sink to your level by "whining to daddy".

Also using unique epic spells...you can create additional epic magic items. Just because you haven't thought of it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

If you can grant godhood with an epic spell...you can certainly grant a few bonus items.

If anyone is interested in how I deal with magic items...it goes like this in my campaigns.

- Magic Item - Standard (common)

- Magic Item - Epic/Relic (can be destroyed normally...are not unique).

- Magic Item - Artifact/Divine (can be destroyed as per artifact rules and are unique).

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

I would anticipate that a Ray attack will burrow through inanimate objects.

Wouldn't the ray attack only need to deal damage to a cylinder of the appropriate mass then? Let's take a Medium-sized ray attack against the earth for example. Assuming that a ray attack from a Medium-sized creature is a 5-foot-diameter cylinder, and that the earth has a mean radius of 7918 miles, the cylinder would have a volume of roughly 821,209,714 cubic feet. If we plug that value in with Earth's density of 5515.3 kilograms per cubic meter, we get a mass of 282,749,838,726 pounds (roughly 141,374,919 tons).

141 megatons falls under the weight of a Macro-Medium creature, so the cylinder has 640 hp. Thus, a 5-foot-diameter, 8000-mile-diameter ray attack could punch a hole through the earth even if it did only 640 damage.

Hmmm, that doesn't seem right to me, since I'm sure that it should have much more hp than that from being a small section of a much larger object.

The earth has a mean radius of 3959 miles or 20,902,231 feet. A fireball has a radius of only 20 feet, so you'd need Widen it 1,045,111 times (that's a lot of AMCs required) in order to make it as big as the earth. An epic spell that big would have a Spellcraft DC of at least 4,180,444 (each +100% radius increase from a 20-foot-radius sphere is +4 DC). That means no sidereal could ever hope to blow up a mere planet. Isn't there any alternative that lets us blow up planets?

Let's say I have a rogue who uses literally hundreds of small knives...each is a +6 keen, piercing (similar to vorpal, except, it pierces the heart or most vital area) knife. He uses them in conjunction with Storm of Throws and other feats of equal devastation.

I was thinking of a possible special weapon ability that could solve this problem. I've given it the name "Replicating". It lets you use a single throwing weapon for all of your ranged attacks in a round (example: you can make a full attack for 4 ranged attacks with a single Replicating weapon, or you can make a Storm of Throws with just one Replicating weapon). Combined with the Triple Throw property along with Storm of Throws, you could make three attacks at each opponent within 30 feet with just a single weapon. With the Echoing special ability and 9 enemies surrouding you, that's 27 attacks against each enemy. How much would the price bonus for this property be?

 

[Pssthpok]

Here's an idea:

Instead of determining wealth/item guidelines strictly from a "you get 4" scenario, what if you say "you get an amount of 'virtual gold' equal to four items proportionate to your ECL"?

So, an ECL 100 entity would have four-times the gold necessary to make a +33 weapon/armor. Multiplying the result by 4 promotes a 4-item setup... so you could dispatch the tinkering to just lay out a +33 armor (i.e. +16/+17), +33 weapon (same thing), +33 resistance, +33 natural armor. Cut-and-dry for the things you don't want to worry about, or you could break down the GP and buy everything off a list if you wanted.

You could then say that anything that doesn't cost at least 1% of the total GP allotted to a creature doesn't cost anything at all. So at a high-enough level, +10 (+5/+5) weapons become 'free', i.e. you can have as many as you want. Thus, if you're a deity who throws knives (for some reason) you know what power your knives have to be in order for you to not worry about how many you have.

Let's take a demigod, like dante stammered on about...

ECL 60.
Max Item Bonus +20. (ECL/3)
Average Item Value 6mgp
Gross Gold Piece Limit 24mgp
Free Item Value 237.6kgp

Normal setup gets you a +20 chain shirt, a +20 longsword, a +20 cloak of resistance, and a +20 amulet of natural armor, let's say. But you could easily break up the 24,000,000 gp and buy the things you want as long as you can manage the accounting. Furthermore, you could have any number of +5/+5 daggers because they fall under the Free Item Value.

 

[dante58701]

I like Pssthpoks idea, it's somewhat complex, but let's face it, anything above 5th level is complex.

But what about immortals with more than 2 Portfolios. With those vulnerabilities to additional artifacts, wouldn't they receive additional artifacts to compensate for that?

Maybe if there were a divine ability that allowed for additional artifacts, this wouldn't be such a problem.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Forgive me, but your explanation is a bunch of horse-pockey. Why? Simple: why would a deity ever bother using the methods listed in the Gained section of the Disciple/Prophet templates when it's incredibly cheaper to enter into a Compact with a mortal to bypass the limits imposed in the Gained section of said templates?

I may remove that (the Gained Section) altogether and just keep the Compact.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dante mate!

Another point in case would be Mercucio's point. He's absolutely right...it is cheaper. Not to mention a lot easier. Sure not everyone will go the route of a pact...but it's a valid point.

For some reason you keep imposing Lateral caps rather than Vertical caps. This is rather counterintuitive.

The problem is that you can't have a vertical cap on this because the immortal gains QP faster than the power curve. Each time the power curve goes up by a factor of two the QP increases fourfold. Thats why lateral caps are necessary.

This is just one of a few inherent flaws in certain limiting factors...factors which should remain optional...like size limitations.

Let's be realistic...an Elder One, should, without any problems...be able to keep it's full power regardless of size. Remember the Q...they were whatever size they wanted to be and could retain their full power regardless.

What if a PC becomes an Elder One...would a human suddenly have a growth spurt? Hell no...most players would never want to physically deform their characters in this manner. It's a very personal thing to them.

No excuse in the world will placate them.

I am going to change that for no other reason than to have you never assail my ears with it again.

While most of the rules in the Immortal's Handbook are superb...there are a few glaring flaws.

Inevitable in such a huge undertaking.

Like Cosmic abilities with the same name that don't match. That one really peeves my gamers. It royally ticks off the girls especially (they tend to have more of a sense of order than the guys).

As most have probably gathered Im part of a rather large gaming group...numbering about 16 or so odd people, give or take a few on school nights.

The more the merrier I say.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dante mate!

If anyone is interested in how I deal with magic items...it goes like this in my campaigns.

- Magic Item - Standard (common)

- Magic Item - Epic/Relic (can be destroyed normally...are not unique).

- Magic Item - Artifact/Divine (can be destroyed as per artifact rules and are unique).

Uniqueness is irrelevant given that you could create an artifact that simply duplicates another. It may not have the same history, but its next to impossible to have history bestow unique powers on artifacts, without creating new powers, and when you do that someone else can alsways say I want a similar power in my artifact.

SO there should be no distinction between epic magic items and artifacts.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy!

Wouldn't the ray attack only need to deal damage to a cylinder of the appropriate mass then? Let's take a Medium-sized ray attack against the earth for example. Assuming that a ray attack from a Medium-sized creature is a 5-foot-diameter cylinder, and that the earth has a mean radius of 7918 miles, the cylinder would have a volume of roughly 821,209,714 cubic feet. If we plug that value in with Earth's density of 5515.3 kilograms per cubic meter, we get a mass of 282,749,838,726 pounds (roughly 141,374,919 tons).

141 megatons falls under the weight of a Macro-Medium creature, so the cylinder has 640 hp. Thus, a 5-foot-diameter, 8000-mile-diameter ray attack could punch a hole through the earth even if it did only 640 damage.

Hmmm, that doesn't seem right to me, since I'm sure that it should have much more hp than that from being a small section of a much larger object.

The earth has a mean radius of 3959 miles or 20,902,231 feet. A fireball has a radius of only 20 feet, so you'd need Widen it 1,045,111 times (that's a lot of AMCs required) in order to make it as big as the earth. An epic spell that big would have a Spellcraft DC of at least 4,180,444 (each +100% radius increase from a 20-foot-radius sphere is +4 DC). That means no sidereal could ever hope to blow up a mere planet. Isn't there any alternative that lets us blow up planets?

This is why you don't blow up planets using the 3E rules.

3E doesn't have rules for the diminishing returns of explosions from epicentre to perimeter.

It doesn't take into account that a single projectile or ray hitting with enough force will release sufficient energy to mimic an explosion.

I was thinking of a possible special weapon ability that could solve this problem. I've given it the name "Replicating". It lets you use a single throwing weapon for all of your ranged attacks in a round (example: you can make a full attack for 4 ranged attacks with a single Replicating weapon, or you can make a Storm of Throws with just one Replicating weapon). Combined with the Triple Throw property along with Storm of Throws, you could make three attacks at each opponent within 30 feet with just a single weapon. With the Echoing special ability and 9 enemies surrouding you, that's 27 attacks against each enemy. How much would the price bonus for this property be?

+4 maybe...assuming the replicas disappear after they strike.

 

[dante58701]

Ok...that's a valid point...but...

I WANT MORE ARTIFACTS!!!

Even if they are less powerful than standard. I want magic items in a plethora, but I want them to work even in anti-magic zones. I want them to bypass Epic damage reduction.