D&D (2024) New leak looks real bad

[Greg Benage]

if it is so superior, there is no need to lock all the other VTTs out…

Leaving this from Dec 8.

WotC - Hasbro Bets Big on D&D

During today's 'Hasbro Fireside Chat', Hasbro's Chris Cocks, chief executive officer, and Cynthia Williams, president of Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming mentioned D&D, and about betting big on its name. This was in addition to the Magic: The Gathering discussion they held on the same...

www.enworld.org

 

[Steel_Wind]

Locking out homebrew content at the lower (lowest?) tiers just seems stupid to me. I mean, I get it; they want to incentivize people signing up for the more expensive plans, but you should do that via "here's some great stuff you get"-style options (which I suppose is what the monthly content drops are supposed to be) rather than "at this price plan, it stops sucking so much!"

Between the standardization via no homebrew content, and the AI DM, it's basically a video game. At least this time the WoW comparisons won't draw so much pushback (I hope).

Dude - DDB does this right now and has for years. You don't get homebrew content on DDB without a paid subscription.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Twice the monthly charge for Warcraft or HBO. A third more than the most expensive Netflix tier.

Does that really sound credible to you?

Given that WoW's monthly pricing hasn't moved in more than a decade (it's currently too low) , and also requires a one-time $60 fee for the current latest expansion (and you get all the previous years content for free)....

Yes, this sounds reasonable to me; or in the zone at least. Do the large majority of current DMs pay more than this per month? Yes we do; many pay a lot more that that, too. I spend 3 to 4 times that a month on RPG related costs. So I get it.

Do players? Perhaps not. But that's one of the things WotC is aiming to "fix". I get that desire, too.

 

[Dausuul]

$30/ month would be twice the cost of a current WoW subscription (which hasn't moved up in quite a while). It's high, but at $15-$20, we are in the competitive and reasonable zone for a monthly MMO game subscription.

I don't play MMOs. And if I did, I sure wouldn't pick one that I only got to play twice a month, costs double the going rate, and uses a ruleset that was designed and optimized for human game masters.

MMOs have absolutely no relevance to anything here.

DDB doesn't offer "homebrew" on its lowest tier right now. You don't get that feature without a paid subscription right now.

Yes, you do. DDB doesn't let you share homebrew with a free account, but you can create as much as you like -- you're just limited to using it within your own campaign.

(I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why DDB wants to limit who can generate free content for their site, but whatever.)

 

[Nikosandros]

Dude - DDB does this right now and has for years. You don't get homebrew content on DDB without a paid subscription.

Well, you can't use homebrew from other users, but you can still make yours and all the players in your campaigns can access it. My understanding of the leaked info* is that you wouldn't be able to make your own homebrew at all without a higher tier subscription.

* Insert all the disclaimers about discussing leaks in an emotionally charged news environment.

 

[Mistwell]

All of this reminds me of the old quote from Churchill- "We have established what you are. Now we are haggling about the price."

Some people will never use the VTT (like me).

Others will use it, and the number who will ... this will depend entirely on price. All those people who are saying they will, or won't, without seeing the product? Seems weird.

Basic economics. The product will be priced in a way to maximize revenue. If the product is priced too high (for what people want), then it will fail as not enough people will get it (and/or be discounted).

If you don't want the VTT then my hypothetical is not applicable to you. I am assuming the highest tier ($30/month) is explicitly for the VTT and being able to use all your DNDBeyond stuff automatically in the VTT with everything already built-in, including all the stuff in Dungeon and Dragon magazine you'd be getting.

 

[Maxperson]

you think that works in a VTT too?

They could set up something that could work. It wouldn't be the same as WoW, but the concept is sound.

 

[Mistwell]

if it is so superior, there is no need to lock all the other VTTs out…

Not sure that follows. It's not about need. They want to control what goes into the VTT. Their stuff, their game, their bug reports and team working them out. Their integration of rules into the platform, all working with their VTT. It either is actually superior and people will want to pay to use it, or it is not and it will fail. I don't think limiting it to D&D will be the key factor in that.

 

[Mistwell]

I was speaking of the value for me personally. I play in person, so I have very little use for a VTT -- I mean, it might be handy every once in a while when somebody can't physically be there, but even there, would it really be worth the effort to move everything online for a one-off session?

And I'm fairly sure I'm not alone here. A lot of people play D&D in person. And a lot of people play theater of the mind. The value proposition of a VTT is quite limited for those two groups. If you take us out of the equation -- and then, of the remainder, take out those who can't or won't shell out the asking price for the VTT -- how big a subscriber base is left? This ain't an MMO where online is the only option.

IF you don't want the VTT then obviously you wouldn't pay the highest tier subscription to gain access to the VTT along with the other stuff. I am assuming, in this hypothetical, the highest tier includes not just access to the VTT but integration of it with all your DNDBeyond stuff including everything in this hypothetical Dungeon and Dragon magazine. Presumably there would be lower tier subscriptions which come without the VTT.

 

[Blue]

Reminder that 4e offered that deal for a third the price (although their VTT never materialized for reasons outside their control).

I was fairly happy with the $10/month 4e subscription. However, it's not quite apples-to-apples.

• 4e had a new hardcover content drop every month, with a significant amount of player-facing content in it - more than a 5e setting book's worth. Call it 3-4 "Everything" books per year of player-facing content. (And the content suffered for that speed, and wasn't playtested again other things in the pipeline so you go some very powerful combos, etc.) All of that was included in the base subscription price.
• 4e had extensive errata, including replacing whole subsections like Flying part way though the lifetime of the game.
• And, of course, 1/3 of the cost. Maybe 1/2 the cost if you consider inflation, but still.

So it was a lot more content, a lot more revisions of printed content going on, and much cheaper than purchasing printed content at the rate it was coming out.

All of that said, another lesson learned was "they can discontinue it". All my characters gone. All the content unavailable so I couldn't play 4e anyone. That was a harsh lesson not obvious until afterward but it should have been - WotC will drop all of your digital stuff once they want to force a move to a new edition and you won't be able to keep playing if it's all digital.