New Star Wars RPG!

[w_earle_wheeler]

Yay, I 3rd edition of the same damn game within six years. Yeah, I'm gonna rush right out and pick that up.

No thanks, I'll wait until 2008 and pick up the 4th edition.

I couldn't help but think the same thing.

 

[wingsandsword]

I couldn't help but think the same thing.

The Revised Core Rules of Star Wars were essentially an Episode II tie-in, it was released within a few days of Episode II and covered Episode II quite heavily compared to the other 4 movies out at the time. The Original Core Rules gave similar disproportionate coverage to Episode I.

Did you only want new editions once a decade or so like AD&D was, or no new editions ever again? It is not a typical RPG, it is a licensed RPG, one with a highly dynamic setting that is always expanding, and especially when the core of the setting (the 6 movies) weren't even all out yet when the last edition of the core rules was released.

If it were a licensed RPG for a popular Sci-Fi TV show (let's say they release a Battlestar Galactica RPG now, or if the Stargate SG-1 RPG was still in production), and then 4 or 5 years later when the show ends they want to produce a new edition to encompass all of the new material revealed in the canon of the source into the core of the game, would you still be complaining that new editions are only a few years apart?

If WotC didn't release a new edition of the core rules, and went back to publishing the RCR and making the Star Wars RPG, you'd get plenty of new players confused as to why the book doesn't cover anything about the events of Episode III, anything about the Legacy era, or the Tales of the Jedi/Old Republic eras. Somebody who has just seen Episode III on DVD and played KotoR I and II and picks up the RCR will find it a little lacking in what he's expecting.

Releasing a new edition of the core rules under these circumstances, almost 5 years after the last edition (May 2002 to March 2007) is a perfectly sound move. Around five years between editions is pretty good for many non-D&D RPG's (Gamma World and original World of Darkness series come to mind).

 

[Ranger REG]

That's the way with licensed products. As long as the franchise keep producing new episodes or films, licensed products like RPG have to keep up with incorporating material for the fans.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

That's the way with licensed products. As long as the franchise keep producing new episodes or films, licensed products like RPG have to keep up with incorporating material for the fans.

Incorporating new material (ie, updating the campaign background material) is fine. It's the alterations to the rules that cause problems.

A group of players with mixed rulebooks causes problems. Additional fluff text doesn't make things difficult, but changes in classes and rules over the course of two (and now, possibly three) rulebooks does.

An example would be trying to play a Wizard using the 3.0 PHB in a 3.5 PHB game. It's basically the same game, but with hundreds of very small changes that add up to one large incompatability issue (if you're playing RAW that is... if you're looser with the rules, then it isn't as much of an issue).

I'm glad to see that the Star Wars RPG is still alive, and I will reseve further comments until I see how compatible the new revision is with the previous revision.

 

[Ranger REG]

Incorporating new material (ie, updating the campaign background material) is fine. It's the alterations to the rules that cause problems.

Well, sometimes you need to alter the rules in order to incorporate the new material. Those writers and producers of the films and upcoming TV series are not going to consider the RPG gamebook as bible. You're not going to hear in a typical writers' staff meeting, "We can't put that element in the episode because it will contradict the RPG rules."

 

[Votan]

Well, sometimes you need to alter the rules in order to incorporate the new material. Those writers and producers of the films and upcoming TV series are not going to consider the RPG gamebook as bible. You're not going to hear in a typical writers' staff meeting, "We can't put that element in the episode because it will contradict the RPG rules."

Yes. For example, post Revenge of the Sith it is getting extremely difficult to award dark force points for usin g force push on a living being. Because either every major good jedi in the canon is picking up a bunch of these in routine operations or else things work differently than in the RCR.

 

[hobgoblin]

handing out dark side points for using force push on people? i would think that it would be based on intent. in the movies the jedi seems to use it to disable and distract, not directly maim or kill. sure, you would get some scratches and bruises, and maybe a broken limb if your realy unlucky, but its not a dark side type attack.

a dark sider would rather send something large and sharp at the person then simply push him back a bit. unless the person was within range of a edge or some sharp and pointy objects, then he would push him towards those.

intent have as much to say as the act itself when it comes to the dark side.

 

[wingsandsword]

handing out dark side points for using force push on people? i would think that it would be based on intent. in the movies the jedi seems to use it to disable and distract, not directly maim or kill. sure, you would get some scratches and bruises, and maybe a broken limb if your realy unlucky, but its not a dark side type attack.

a dark sider would rather send something large and sharp at the person then simply push him back a bit. unless the person was within range of a edge or some sharp and pointy objects, then he would push him towards those.

intent have as much to say as the act itself when it comes to the dark side.

I think making force push, or similar powers, grant a Dark Side Point when used is rooted in Yoda's teachings in Episode V: "A Jedi uses the Force for Knowledge and Defense, never for Attack". We see Palpatine and Vader crush windpipes and throw lightning.

We very rarely seee Jedi use the Force to directly attack, Qui-Gon throwing Battle Droids aside and Yoda quickly smacking down two Royal Guard and duelling Palpatine with force-thrown objects being the big examples. Thus, Jedi rarely do it, probably because it's way too easy to cross over to the Dark Side if you get used to using it to attack, and Yoda was giving a stern warning to Luke. Perhaps with more years of training Yoda would have explained the exceptions to his warning, but as a general rule, attacking with the Force is a Dark Side action.

The Jedi Counselling column on the WotC site had a good way to model this, an optional rule that every time a character performs an act that would gather a Dark Side Point, they have to make a Will save to avoid the point, with the difficulty rising sharply depending on the nature of the act. Thus, a Jedi Master might be able to get away with throwing two guardsmen around with the Force and engaging in an epic duel with a Sith Master which involves telekinetic combat, while a brash and angry Jedi apprentice who is already being actively tempted by the Dark Side like Luke would likely get a DSP for force-choking a pair of Gammorean guards when other ways to get by them would have been more appropriate.

 

[hobgoblin]

question then, what is an attack? if i prevent my enemy from attacking me by tripping them over and pushing them back using force push, is that an attack, or a pre-emptive defense?

(hmm, pre-emptive defense, sounds like something that we don't want to make political. poor choice of words i guess).

the more i think about it, the more it seems that the teaching of the jedi have much in common with wiccan magic...

something about it being dangerus to use magic with a mind full of negative emotions.

 

[DethStryke]

The Revised Core Rules of Star Wars were essentially an Episode II tie-in, it was released within a few days of Episode II and covered Episode II quite heavily compared to the other 4 movies out at the time. The Original Core Rules gave similar disproportionate coverage to Episode I.

While I think that this was true to an extent, I think the way you are presenting it is out of context and exaggerated. The vehicle/starship rules re-write, for instance, was a great improvement and had nothing really to do with Ep II... it was simply fixing a clunky, uncoordinated and difficult to use in a practical sense system with a more streamlined and all around better one. Not to mention the including of droid rules, which was nice, and the format of the skills which made them much faster and streamlined for reference. The list goes on, but that's a big change already. You're talking about three full chapters of the book right there!

It's assumed that they will support major events like the new Star Wars movies were (Whether they were *worth* that acclaim, is a totally different rant entirely...). The movies are huge marketing drives, and ANY product with the franchise name is going to be cross-marketed for sales synergy. That's business. But I personally hate Eps. 1-3, and run a rebellion-based game myself. Very little of D20 books are pure Ep. 1-2 from either edition (1 only for the first, of course, and so on). I.e., information that can't be used or isn't still true for the span of ep. 4-6.

As a whole, there were plenty of changes and re-writes on the system as a whole that the Revised system made good sense. The way I see it, they had more than enough reason to make the Revised system already - the new movie and the chance to gain the entire budget of the new Star Wars movie AND the movie's marketing campaign as a pseudo budget for its own marketing is a business strategy that also makes good sense. That's the whole point of cross-marketing and creating brand synergy in the first place.

But it is *not* the whole reason for the Revised Edition, and to say that it was just sounds like sour grapes with no real substance behind the claim.