NG vs. NE: Neutral Evil is Victorious!

[Greybar]

Final answer, from the 3.5 FAQ posted 9/21/2006 (latest) - this is specifically covered:

Is sunder a special standard action or is it a melee
attack variant? It has its own entry on the actions table, but
the text describing it refers to it as a melee attack. Is sunder
a melee attack only in the sense of hitting something with a
melee weapon, or is sunder a true melee attack?

Sunder is a special kind of melee attack. If it were a special
standard action, its description would say so (as the descriptive
text for the Manyshot feat says).
If you make a full attack, and you have multiple attacks
from a high base attack bonus, you can sunder more than once,
or attack and sunder, or some other combination of attacking
and sundering.
Sunder does indeed get its own entry in Table 8-2: Actions
in Combat in the Player’s Handbook. It needs one because
unlike a regular melee attack, sunder provokes an attack of
opportunity (although not if you have the Improved Sunder
feat).
You can also disarm, grapple, or trip as a melee attack (or
attack of opportunity).

 

[Greybar]

And further (from the same FAQ):

A monster with several natural weapons can make a sunder or trip attack with each one, provided that it uses the full attack action, and its natural weaponry is useful for the attack in question.

The latter is specifically building on earier specification that piercing-only weapons cannot sunder (such as gore or stings).

 

[Infiniti2000]

The FAQ is wrong. Sunder is not a case of conflicting sources, it's a case of not identifying the action type. The text doesn't identify it at all. Note how I pointed out the fallacy of correlating sunder with disarm, grapple, and trip. If you want to maintain that correlation, you would have to explain the lack of sunder being on the table. The FAQ answer is explicitly in error when it says "You can also disarm, grapple, or trip as a melee attack (or
attack of opportunity)." The use of the word "also" is inappropriate. You cannot not, in fact, use sunder as an attack of opportunity because the table footnote I pointed out does not explicitly allow for it, as it does for disarm, grapple, or trip.

But, I don't understand where that person commented about provoking an AoO. Whether an action provokes an AoO or not is completely irrelevant as to what type of action it is.

 

[Greybar]

If you say that text straight from WoTC, the publisher of the rules, is wrong then I don't have a counter argument.

You're saying that several items in a FAQ published less than a month ago is wrong because a line doesn't exist in a table? Even though WoTC's errata also says you should disregard secondary sources (tables) when they seem to be in conflict with primary sources (text).

Errata Rule: Primary Sources
When you find a disagreement between two D&D® rules
sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the
primary source is correct. One example of a
primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over
a table entry.

Or do you say we should ignore errata, published by WoTC, 'cause it's wrong too?

 

[Gansk]

I agree that the FAQ answer has flawed logic and I need more convincing to switch the rule.

The rule up until now has been that Sunder is a standard action, so for the sake of consistency, we will continue with that ruling during the quaterfinals. We can readdress the issue before the semifinals begin.

 

[Greybar]

Will do.

Danuba will make the same 5ft step (to 90n65e), but Full Attack Kazaam instead.

 

[PJSlavner]

Kazaam will full attack back, then blip over to 85N0E.

 

[Greybar]

OOC: Ooooh, that ddoor as a free action is very nice. Ouchie!

 

[Gansk]

Round 315: Danuba can't reach with her claws, but hits four times for 67 damage total. Kazaam has 176 hp left.

Kazaam hits twice for a total of 53-40 damage. He then disappears and reappears at 85N0E.

Danuba starts round 316 with 262 hp.

 

[Greybar]

Danuba moves to 95n55e and waits.

Gansk
[sblock]
Danuba will ready a trip attack if Kazaam appears within 15ft, or will just tail-lash him if he appears at 20ft. If I can't do a double-contingency (Ready actions always seem ripe for over-complication), then only worry about the trip.
[/sblock]