D&D 5E No One Plays High Level?

[Autumnal]

Okay. Thank you a lot for context. It’s the usual problem: it’s more or less impossible to strike a pose that someone isn’t out there advocating seriously.

 

[FrogReaver]

Okay. Thank you a lot for context. It’s the usual problem: it’s more or less impossible to strike a pose that someone isn’t out there advocating seriously.

Are you serious???

 

[Ogre Mage]

If you want high level games to go faster you have to be harsh. these are high level characters. In combat get a 3 minute egg timer if they can't decide what to do in 3 minutes consider it a move to the bottom of the initiative order and then give them one more chance at the end of the round. No decision in time means standing there unable to decide and lose the action. I've played and run a few gmes like that and it's amazing how much faster the game runs. Don't ever let someone stop the game and look up options to decide what to do in combat. they are supposed to be competent in high level games.

We call the "thinking forever about what to do" analysis paralysis. No, you probably aren't going to come up with exactly the most optimal actions to take on your turn every time, but thinking for more than a minute or two likely isn't going to change that.

Yeah, this is one reason why I dislike Tier 4 and upper Tier 3 play. The slowness of getting through turns due to multiple actions per character and analysis paralysis becomes acute. And I myself have sometimes been guilty when running very high level characters.

 

[Autumnal]

Are you serious???

You know what trepanning is? The thing where someone gets a hole drilled in their skull to let evil spirits out, liberate their pineal gland, etc? Half my sense of irony the day in 1997 a friend showed me a website where people who’d trepanned themselves or had someone else trepan them could post audio files of the procedure. Complete with a little “pop!” sound when the drill went through. (And yes, some had details verifiable in news stories and medical journals. There’s a syndrome, though I forget its name.)

Sliding from there into the 21st century just left me kinda irony-blind. But I don’t know where to express my dissatisfaction by returning the unused portion.

Edited to add: A friend reminds me to say that my sense of irony was shot off during the First Browser War.

 

[nevin]

No. I wished to create it (now).

I don't want it already to have been created. Which is why i wished to create it, as opposed to wishing for it to already have been created.

But that wasn't what I wished for.

IMO, i think most of the twisting ends up not actually giving the person what the specifically wished for - that's what your twisting is amounting to. I'm sure there's valid ways of twisting, but what you are doing isn't.

but the main thing is you are wishing to create a 9th level spell, wouldn't matter if it were duplicating wish or anything else you crossed the line on the actuall safe wish so by the verbage of the spell it will be an unreliable result. If you stay at 8th level and below there should be no hijinx. I would point out that creating a duplicate version of the wish spell doesn't prevent the DM from giving you one that has a 90 percent chance of failure, giving you the new mortal version to cast cursed abyssal wishes or any other thing a DM might decide to do to you. The Goddess of magic might just cut you off for overreaching or as I threw out earlier make you a creature that can cast wish but can't use it for your own goals.

 

[Autumnal]

Out of curiosity, has anyone done high-level play where Wish was simply not a thing? If so, how did it go?

 

[nevin]

Yeah, this is one reason why I dislike Tier 4 and upper Tier 3 play. The slowness of getting through turns due to multiple actions per character and analysis paralysis becomes acute. And I myself have sometimes been guilty when running very high level characters.

This is why I'm a fan of hard limit s on time for a decision on the turn. It forces DM and and player alike to just keep moving forward. Yeah more mistakes get made but the game actually moves and you don't get 3 game sessions of planning, teleport here get more information plan some more, etc etc etc . another session of planning and then a 2 session combat. And I've done that game. That makes high level play like watching that anime where it takes 15 sessions to get through one combat. NOT FUN>

 

[Oofta]

Out of curiosity, has anyone done high-level play where Wish was simply not a thing? If so, how did it go?

I've played to 20th a few times now, I don't remember wish ever being a thing other than perhaps to recreate an 8th level or lower spell. Maybe it's because many the people playing the wizards were old school enough to remember the old "Twist a wish to f*** over the player" days. In any case, when it was used people didn't want to risk losing it.

Can't say how typical it was. But high level play always worked fine for me.

 

[Distracted DM]

I've played to 20th a few times now, I don't remember wish ever being a thing other than perhaps to recreate an 8th level or lower spell. Maybe it's because many the people playing the wizards were old school enough to remember the old "Twist a wish to f*** over the player" days. In any case, when it was used people didn't want to risk losing it.

Can't say how typical it was. But high level play always worked fine for me.

Yeah, it hasn't been issue in any of my games either. Even Wishes granted by the DoMT were hoarded greedily and only used when the party thought "we are well and truly fk'd," and those wishes still worked in unexpected but still favorable ways.

Wizards that had it used it in creative endgame situations.

 

[nevin]

Out of curiosity, has anyone done high-level play where Wish was simply not a thing? If so, how did it go?

As i said when I do it. It depends on who's granting the wish, What they are asking for. I've determined God that had an interest in what the party was doing was granting and when the wizard asked ressurect two party members and heal the other 3 completely it just worked.

One game I ran a party member wished to be the richest person in the world and became the 60 year NPC in charge of all trade in waterdeep. ; and the merchant became him. I played mage-thief in forgotten realms wished to be the best thief alive and the best thief alive suddenly changed places with him becomeing a mage/thief and my character ended up a much higher level thief with no magic in the deep underground dungeon where Waterdeep, keep's the dangerous people. both got exactly what they asked for. I don't even feel like me or the DM screwed anyone. I'll say this. Generally just giving the character what they wish for with the inevitable consequences that come from the change's in reality are far more painful than screwing them up front by actively screwing with the wish.

My DM wishing rules.
1. Barring intelligent influence a wish will always take the path of least magic required to achieve.
2. When a wisher attempt's to wish for more than the power of the spell it will attempt to leech other magic to achieve spell.
(so if you are standing on a ley line, or are a really powerful party with a lot of magical items they are all potential sources of magic. (though I'd give them appropriate saves if the wish tried to drain them). If the verbage is open and non restrictive the wish could make a deal with an outsider without your knowledge but your inferred consent as you cast the spell etc, etc, etc. Or the spell take the closest path it can achieve the closest result to what you asked for. I.E. You wished to resurrect 3 people, wish can't do that not enough magic to leach, no god jumping in to help, so it used 3 5th level spells and reincarnate's all 3 of them. )
3. The wish will not do something you didn't wish for unless it is malfunctioning because you asked too much of it.
a. this means if the wish makes a deal with a power or creature they are stuck to the verbage of the wish as well.
4. Big changes will draw attention of those affected, the creators of the universe and thier proxies.
a. this does not necessarily mean immediate reaction. you have just popped up on the universal threat radar of some powerful being or group as a potential problem that may need to be dealt with, or even used to achieve thier own goals.

note you can stick to a set of rules like this and simply attempt within the existing powers and spells WOTC has layed out and trying to comply non-maliciously the player may be screwed or unhappy when say his friends are now the 6" barbarian pixie, the Orc ranger who wants to kill himself, and the Hot lizard woman Bard who is now not a good face for the party.

But as long as the wisher sticks to things within the spell descriptions or close to them and wishes for one thing I don't screw them. 1 ressurection is completely within the power of a wish. Wishing for 4 more points of intelligence would probably get you a crown of intelligence etc.

Wishing the BBEGI Dead might get you a visit from the god of the dead for an up close personal talk on what is his domain and what is your domain.

I don't need to creatively screw my players they do it to themselves all the time. But then so do I when I'm playing and go that route.