D&D 5E Now that "damage on a miss" is most likely out of the picture, are you happy?

[Kobold Stew]

I think you are referring to this.

It was a joke.

 

[Agamon]

*looks around in awe*

It's own sub-forum?

My faith in humanity seems to die a little more every day....

 

[Ichneumon]

*looks around in awe*

It's own sub-forum?

My faith in humanity seems to die a little more every day....

The deceased equine was stomped into a clear sticky substance long ago.

The next stage is churning it to butter.

 

[Cybit]

...Boooooo

I would maintain that folks should not worry about it too much, I think it will be replaced for better options.

 

[pemerton]

While I had no problem with DOAM, I do feel that the expanded crit range is the most likely replacement mechanism I have yet seen proposed. It is simple, immediate,and gives a clear advantage where one is needed without being disproportionately powerful compared to the other options.

Bonus damage on a crit for a d12 weapon is +5.5 (for max) +6.5 (for bonus die), =+12 altogether. Assuming that the typical hit range is 12 in 20, then expanding the crit range by 1 is worth +1 expected damage.

Given that DoaM is worth about +2 expected damage, and that it is less likely to result in wasted damage than a crit, you'd probably want to give a +2 crit range.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Thanks for the numbers. I honestly do not think making it balance against an alternative that has proved so controversial is at all relevant. Expanding the crit range by one makes it a clearly desirable option that will see regular use each session and makes it a desirable choice for heavy-weapon fighting.

Plus, there may be other means to expand the crit range in the game, and the additive benefits are significant. Accepting your numbers, gaining an average of +12 damage 22% of the time you hit (2 in 9) instead of 11% of the time (1 in 9) should be enough to make anyone content, in my opinion. If they are not, then there are always other options (+1 AC, etc.).

 

[Obryn]

...Boooooo

I would maintain that folks should not worry about it too much, I think it will be replaced for better options.

The issue right now is that most Fighter "options" boil down to:

* Attack it
* Attack it again
* Hit it a little harder
* When you hit it really well, hit it harder

DoaM is hardly the most exciting of options, but it's at least something different than any of the above.

 

[Hussar]

Are you saying that in your games, a big bad has never been down to a few hp? He/she was always taken out while at high hp levels?

Taking out a big bad with a 3 damage chip attack can come up far more often and is far more likely than completely wearing down such a foe with such attacks. To me, a finishing shot with autodamage feels so meh.

The bad guy morgue will be filled with corpses all with the autopsy report reading: Cause of death-standing in proximity to great weapon.

Let's unpack this a bit more shall we?

What has to happen for DoaM to drop something?

1) The creature has to be reduced to 3 or less HP without killing it.
2) The GWF fighter's turn must be next in line, or, everyone between him and the last attack which reduced the creatures to 3 HP has to miss.
3) The GWF fighter has to miss. Which, by rights, he shouldn't be.

We're talking a pretty corner case here. At low levels, when creatures only have 3 HP, sure, it's pretty common. But, after 1st or 2nd level, it's becoming less and less often.

Which brings me back to a question I asked earlier that got lost in the scrum - is it DoaM that tips people over or killing something on a miss? If it's DoaM, sure, fine, that will come up every combat. If it's killing on a miss, then we're talking something that might come up once a session at the absolute outside and likely far less often than that.

 

[pemerton]

magic missiles and fireballs and lighting bolts are limited resources.

So are hit points, which is what a fighter is spending to deal DoaM.

 

[pemerton]

Accepting your numbers, gaining an average of +12 damage 22% of the time you hit (2 in 9) instead of 11% of the time (1 in 9) should be enough to make anyone content, in my opinion. If they are not, then there are always other options (+1 AC, etc.).

As I said, each increase in crit range is the equivalent of a +1 to damage (assuming that they are additive - obviously if not, then each one over the first is +0 to damage).

I'm not sure why you're using a 9 in 20 hit rate, though. A first level fighter has +4 to hit (+3 stat, +1 prof). How many creatures have AC 16? I think AC 13 - for a 3 in 5 hit rate, which is what my calculation is based on - is more typical.