"OK. Make a Will Save." POOF! Go the Fighter and Rogue
- Thread starter Falcon
- Start date
It would seem that everyone has said it. But, again, yes, Fighters Are the feat man. They get 18 in comparison with everyone else's 7. Yet another if they're human.
There's the Iron Will, or Arcane Defense (Tome and Blood) that gives a +2 vs. a magic school's DCs. If you're Really up a creak, why not play a Dwarven fighter, who gets an extra +2 to saves vs. magical stuff? Elves are immune to sleep and recieve a +2 vs. Enchantment spells, where a lot of your Will spells come from. If you're Really afraid, ask the cleric or wizard to slap a Protection from Evil spell on you. It's cheap, and effective vs. some mind effecting spells. If you're die hard about resisting them, then play a Native Outsider (Genasi, Tiefling, etc); they're immune to Charm, Hold Person, Etc.
Hey, there are quite a few spells that effect Fort saves. Disintegrate, Blindness/Deafness, Polymorph Other... Mages are just as weak. And, Phantasmal Killer has TWO saves, so it should help you out somewhere.
Really, my party's ground is well covered. An Illusionist, a cleric, an NPC true lycanthrope, and a half-dragon thief. Their saves all around are good, and the Lycanthrope's not effected by Person spells.
There's the Iron Will, or Arcane Defense (Tome and Blood) that gives a +2 vs. a magic school's DCs. If you're Really up a creak, why not play a Dwarven fighter, who gets an extra +2 to saves vs. magical stuff? Elves are immune to sleep and recieve a +2 vs. Enchantment spells, where a lot of your Will spells come from. If you're Really afraid, ask the cleric or wizard to slap a Protection from Evil spell on you. It's cheap, and effective vs. some mind effecting spells. If you're die hard about resisting them, then play a Native Outsider (Genasi, Tiefling, etc); they're immune to Charm, Hold Person, Etc.
Hey, there are quite a few spells that effect Fort saves. Disintegrate, Blindness/Deafness, Polymorph Other... Mages are just as weak. And, Phantasmal Killer has TWO saves, so it should help you out somewhere.
Really, my party's ground is well covered. An Illusionist, a cleric, an NPC true lycanthrope, and a half-dragon thief. Their saves all around are good, and the Lycanthrope's not effected by Person spells.
Get freedom of movement, that's the best power ever.
A variant periapt of proof against poison changed from poison to compulsion is a cheap and effective solution.
A wizard only has a slight bonus to will save over the fighter at 6th level. (+3)
Use dispel magic. (Protection from spells is way high level)
Problems solved yet?
A variant periapt of proof against poison changed from poison to compulsion is a cheap and effective solution.
A wizard only has a slight bonus to will save over the fighter at 6th level. (+3)
Use dispel magic. (Protection from spells is way high level)
Problems solved yet?
Dave Blewer
First Post
A solution for the true powergamer:
Pick up a level of Cleric with the Travel Domain - Then you gain a use of freedom of movement for one round, delaying that Hold Person spells effects.
Pick up a level of Cleric with the Travel Domain - Then you gain a use of freedom of movement for one round, delaying that Hold Person spells effects.
Squire James
Explorer
Every class has to make a "guns or butter" decision once in a while. Many fighters slap their 3 highest stats in Str, Dex, and Con automatically, and use Wis as their "dump stat" (almost as often as Cha). This tends to yield fighters who can dish out damage, take damage, and have good Fortitude and Reflex saves. Will saves are pretty much left out in the cold.
A fairly good Wis (say 14) and the Iron Will feat will give a level 1 fighter a Will save of +4. Most Will saves you make at this point are DC 14-16, so you should succeed about half the time. Compare this to the Wis 8 fighter with no save-altering feat with a Will save of -1 (fail 70-80% of the time). While the first character will have one less offensive combat feat (perhaps he can only take Power Attack and must save Cleave for later), in a spell-heavy environment he'll use what he has more than the second character will.
If said "Wisdom fighter" takes Alertness along with his Iron Will and Power Attack (or is an elf and forgoes Alertness), he also has +4 to Spot and Listen at level 1 with no ranks. Occasionally getting to act in the surprise round is good (and Spot/Listen checks normally decide such things).
A fairly good Wis (say 14) and the Iron Will feat will give a level 1 fighter a Will save of +4. Most Will saves you make at this point are DC 14-16, so you should succeed about half the time. Compare this to the Wis 8 fighter with no save-altering feat with a Will save of -1 (fail 70-80% of the time). While the first character will have one less offensive combat feat (perhaps he can only take Power Attack and must save Cleave for later), in a spell-heavy environment he'll use what he has more than the second character will.
If said "Wisdom fighter" takes Alertness along with his Iron Will and Power Attack (or is an elf and forgoes Alertness), he also has +4 to Spot and Listen at level 1 with no ranks. Occasionally getting to act in the surprise round is good (and Spot/Listen checks normally decide such things).
Falcon said:
Ohhh... I get it, you are looking for sympathy, not advice! I used to have the same problem giving advice to my wife until I read "Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus".
Mages are broken, and fighters got the shaft.
No seriously, people have suggested putting more points into Wisdom, taking the Iron Will feat, taking a level of cleric for a quick +2 to Will saves and if you get the travel domain the freedom of movement power, playing a non-human race such as an elf, dwarf, or even a half-dragon (immune to sleep AND paralysis), getting yourself a cloak of resistance or ring of free action.
Here's my advice: beg, borrow, or steal a Periapt of Wisdom. Not only will it boost your Will saves, but it adds to a lot of important skills.
If all these ideas stink, what exactly are you looking for?
Squire James
Explorer
OK, that was the "short run". In the long run, as the fighter rises in levels, he is going to need magic items to keep up with the wizards. While most fighters think about the "plusses" on their armor, weapon, and/or shield before thinking of other things, the wise fighter thinks of other things first.
First of all, see if you can buy/sell magic items in your camapign. If you can't, the world actually favors wizards and priests, because they can get their magic anyway (be sure to tell the DM that!). The items you should be seeking:
1. Saving throw items such as Cloak of Resistance. A lot of competition here, because EVERYONE is going to want one!
2. Ring of Freedom of Movement. They're gonna have to charm you now, because you're gonna get actions now!
3. Boots of Speed and/or Striding/Springing ("standard" price for boots that do both should be 20,000 gp). If you can move up to the offending wizard or priest and full-attack him, he may never get a good chance to charm/hold you!
Also, try to convince the DM that you can roleplay a charmed PC. There's a difference between considering the charmer your best friend and actually doing what he wants! Having the DM veto an occasional action is better than losing control entirely. Be sure to remind him of that hefty +5 save bonus if you're being attacked by the caster or his allies before attempting the Charm!
First of all, see if you can buy/sell magic items in your camapign. If you can't, the world actually favors wizards and priests, because they can get their magic anyway (be sure to tell the DM that!). The items you should be seeking:
1. Saving throw items such as Cloak of Resistance. A lot of competition here, because EVERYONE is going to want one!
2. Ring of Freedom of Movement. They're gonna have to charm you now, because you're gonna get actions now!
3. Boots of Speed and/or Striding/Springing ("standard" price for boots that do both should be 20,000 gp). If you can move up to the offending wizard or priest and full-attack him, he may never get a good chance to charm/hold you!
Also, try to convince the DM that you can roleplay a charmed PC. There's a difference between considering the charmer your best friend and actually doing what he wants! Having the DM veto an occasional action is better than losing control entirely. Be sure to remind him of that hefty +5 save bonus if you're being attacked by the caster or his allies before attempting the Charm!
Broken Fang
First Post
CWD your response was almost identical to what mine was going to be after I read Falcon's. Thanks for saving me the time to write it up. 
LostSoul
Adventurer
Magic items. By that level, your Fighter should have something to help him boost Will saves, made for him by the party Wizard (or Cleric, or whoever).
Rangers, Barbarains, and other classes face the same Will or die situation; and they don't have the Feats to save them! so magic is the only way. That's just the way D&D works. If you don't like "save or die" spells, talk to your magic-using characters about getting rid of them.
By the way, Charm Person isn't going to knock a character out of the fight. You may not want to see your two friends fighting, so you might try and grapple them so they can talk it out, or disarm them, or subdue them, or just stand in a good position to keep people from fighting. At least that's how I play it.
Rangers, Barbarains, and other classes face the same Will or die situation; and they don't have the Feats to save them! so magic is the only way. That's just the way D&D works. If you don't like "save or die" spells, talk to your magic-using characters about getting rid of them.
By the way, Charm Person isn't going to knock a character out of the fight. You may not want to see your two friends fighting, so you might try and grapple them so they can talk it out, or disarm them, or subdue them, or just stand in a good position to keep people from fighting. At least that's how I play it.
