D&D 5E On rulings, rules, and Twitter, or: How Sage Advice Changed

[Ovinomancer]

Dude, I'm done. Have a good one.

No problem. Have a flexible day!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just a note: there have been numerous reports of inordinately aggressive posting rhetoric. Nothing actionable YET. But enough of it has been on the borderline of incivility that it‘s making things difficult for the staff.

Please, if you could, Dial it back a notch.

 

[Helpful NPC Thom]

The only genre 5e does well is D&D. You can do D&D in space, you can do post-apocalypse D&D, and you can do D&D noir (which is very weird). But it's nearly impossible for 5e to not be D&D. The different flavors of D&D you can do aren't full genres, but rather some genre flavor sprinkled on top of D&D.

I will agree with this. My go-to game is Savage Worlds. It's a flexible, genre-neutral system that encourages pulp action adventure. It can do fantasy, science fiction, gothic horror, and spaghetti westerns. It does them all very well...but it only does them in shades of Savage Worlds. Every Savage Worlds game is going to have big gunfights with a lot of miniatures on the battlefield because that's what the game is about.

In that same vein, every D&D game can do different genres, but they're all D&D. D&D meets science fiction (Spelljammer)! D&D meets gothic horror (Ravenloft)! D&D meets post-apocalypse (Dark Sun)! The system's conceits define and constrain it. There are boundaries in place that D&D cannot reach beyond. Hit point attrition, resource management, Vancian spells, classes, saving throws, the ability scores, etc. Your game might cross out the word wizard and replace it with "decker," you might call spells "programs," you might change hit points to "stamina," but the basic gameplay remains unchanged.

It's a bit tautological, but a thing is defined as itself. D&D is D&D.

 

[mrpopstar]

I will agree with this. My go-to game is Savage Worlds. It's a flexible, genre-neutral system that encourages pulp action adventure. It can do fantasy, science fiction, gothic horror, and spaghetti westerns. It does them all very well...but it only does them in shades of Savage Worlds. Every Savage Worlds game is going to have big gunfights with a lot of miniatures on the battlefield because that's what the game is about.

In that same vein, every D&D game can do different genres, but they're all D&D. D&D meets science fiction (Spelljammer)! D&D meets gothic horror (Ravenloft)! D&D meets post-apocalypse (Dark Sun)! The system's conceits define and constrain it. There are boundaries in place that D&D cannot reach beyond. Hit point attrition, resource management, Vancian spells, classes, saving throws, the ability scores, etc. Your game might cross out the word wizard and replace it with "decker," you might call spells "programs," you might change hit points to "stamina," but the basic gameplay remains unchanged.

It's a bit tautological, but a thing is defined as itself. D&D is D&D.

Agreed that Dungeons & Dragons is not a genre.

Heroic fantasy, sword and sorcery, epic fantasy, mythic fantasy, dark fantasy, intrigue, mystery, swashbuckling, war, and wuxia are genres (of fiction).

You can flavor D&D with genre, but it remains D&D.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Agreed that Dungeons & Dragons is not a genre.

Heroic fantasy, sword and sorcery, epic fantasy, mythic fantasy, dark fantasy, intrigue, mystery, swashbuckling, war, and wuxia are genres (of fiction).

You can flavor D&D with genre, but it remains D&D.

At this point, D&D is a genre -- it has a definable and referenceable set of tropes that pervade the experience and create stories that are identifiably D&D. The system does this genre well, but can't escape it because many of these tropes are baked into the game system. As such, you're only sprinkling in other genres onto the D&D genre.

 

[mrpopstar]

At this point, D&D is a genre -- it has a definable and referenceable set of tropes that pervade the experience and create stories that are identifiably D&D. The system does this genre well, but can't escape it because many of these tropes are baked into the game system. As such, you're only sprinkling in other genres onto the D&D genre.

Dungeons & Dragons is a roleplaying game. Heroic fantasy is the assumed genre.

I'm glad we reached this part, though, where there's tacit acknowledgment that the rules found in Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook do something specific in defining and reinforcing the tropes D&D is famous for.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Dungeons & Dragons is a roleplaying game. Heroic fantasy is the assumed genre.

Yes, D&D is a roleplaying game. It's also a genre. People don't say, "I wanna play heroic fantasy," they say, "I wanna play D&D." What that means isn't that they're looking for the heroic fantasy tropes, but rather the D&D tropes. Heroic fantasy isn't the only genre flavoring that D&D is capable.

The D&D genre is a separate thing from heroic fantasy.

I'm glad we reached this part, though, where there's tacit acknowledgment that the rules found in Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook do something specific in defining and reinforcing the tropes D&D is famous for.

I don't follow you here at all. I don't see how backgrounds, BIFTs, and setting your character's height and weight establish the D&D genre, especially since it existed long before that chapter, and exist independently of your character having a background at all, much less BIFTs. The D&D genre is largely defined by and baked into the way combat is central, the focus on group-identity/play, and zero-to-hero. None of that relies on Chapter 4 stuff -- it exists even if you excise Chapter 4.

 

[mrpopstar]

Yes, D&D is a roleplaying game. It's also a genre. People don't say, "I wanna play heroic fantasy," they say, "I wanna play D&D." What that means isn't that they're looking for the heroic fantasy tropes, but rather the D&D tropes. Heroic fantasy isn't the only genre flavoring that D&D is capable.

The D&D genre is a separate thing from heroic fantasy.

If you were to check the Player's Handbook out from the library, you would find it under the genre "fantasy," or maybe "science fiction," but certainly not "D&D."

I don't follow you here at all. I don't see how backgrounds, BIFTs, and setting your character's height and weight establish the D&D genre, especially since it existed long before that chapter, and exist independently of your character having a background at all, much less BIFTs. The D&D genre is largely defined by and baked into the way combat is central, the focus on group-identity/play, and zero-to-hero. None of that relies on Chapter 4 stuff -- it exists even if you excise Chapter 4.

Dungeons & Dragons is famous for its nine alignments, within which you will find a trope.

 

[Ovinomancer]

If you were to check the Player's Handbook out from the library, you would find it under the genre "fantasy," or maybe "science fiction," but certainly not "D&D."

I'm not sure what your point is, here. Are library filing systems definitional for genre? Because they don't have a heroic fiction section, either.

Dungeons & Dragons is famous for its nine alignments, within which you will find a trope.

True, but that's been heavily toned down for the last two editions. I can leave that space blank on my sheet in 5e and it doesn't change how the game plays.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It's a bit tautological, but a thing is defined as itself. D&D is D&D.

While true with all games, I'd argue that the number of extremely specific legacy mechanics in D&D makes it a stronger factor there than in most games.