D&D General On the physiology of Gelatinous Cubes

[billd91]

In that case I don't want to know what the equivalent of colonoscopy prep is.

Honestly, it's a party of explorers looking for adventure.

 

[CleverNickName]

The game doesn't say it weighs 30 tons. If a 10'
...
I can voluntarily choose to visualize an absurdity (a human person leg-sweeping a 30 ton cube of water) or something fantastic but plausible (a human person knocking a weird supernatural monster off balance and it taking a few seconds to re-establish its orientation/bearings).

Yeah, i know. The game rules don't give us the gravitational constant of the planet either, or the combustion equation that allows torches to work. We make these assumptions ourselves, modeling them on our own understanding here in the real world. And since that level of understanding varies from person to person, so does the interpretation of the rules.

The absurdity you are visualizing makes perfect sense to someone with a science-heavy background, or someone who solves real-world problems like this every day... so some rules require a lot more wilful suspension of disbelief to "sell it" to them. What one person csn shrug off and handwave as "superhero stuff" can be very immersion-breaking for someone else.

That's not a failing of the person or the rules. It's just an incompatibility. Some rules just won't make sense to some people. And that's where house rules come in.

 

[Rabulias]

I know it may have little relevance to some 5e DMs, but the 3.5 Monster Manual states that gelatinous cubes weigh about 15,000 pounds. This figure seems to imply that the protoplasm of a cube is significantly less dense than water.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I know it may have little relevance to some 5e DMs, but the 3.5 Monster Manual states that gelatinous cubes weigh about 15,000 pounds. This figure seems to imply that the protoplasm of a cube is significantly less dense than water.

Also significantly less dense than ... Jell-o.

Less than half as dense, in fact. Which makes you realize that, just maybe, the people that wrote the 3.5 MM did not, in fact, fully work out the possible density of the gelatinous cube.

 

[Mannahnin]

Yeah, i know. The game rules don't give us the gravitational constant of the planet either, or the combustion equation that allows torches to work. We make these assumptions ourselves, modeling them on our own understanding here in the real world. And since that level of understanding varies from person to person, so does the interpretation of the rules.

The absurdity you are visualizing makes perfect sense to someone with a science-heavy background, or someone who solves real-world problems like this every day... so some rules require a lot more wilful suspension of disbelief to "sell it" to them. What one person csn shrug off and handwave as "superhero stuff" can be very immersion-breaking for someone else.

That's not a failing of the person or the rules. It's just an incompatibility. Some rules just won't make sense to some people. And that's where house rules come in.

It makes perfect sense to you to visualize a person leg-sweeping a 30 ton cube of water? I think you wrote that part wrong.

I follow the rest of your points.

Do you similarly disallow human-sized creatures from grappling large, multi-thousand pound creatures like a Rhino (or even smaller ones like an Ogre) in 5E?

Part of my point is that D&D is full of similar contradictions to real-world physics which we routinely accept, and that exactly where a given thing sticks too much in our craw and contradicts our Invisible Rulebooks to an unacceptable degree is inherently personal and subjective. It's not an objective bright line. It sounds like we're largely on the same page about that per your last paragraph, but I think people in general have a tendency to lack perspective sometimes, and forget about other absurdities we've already swallowed when we encounter a new one.

I know it may have little relevance to some 5e DMs, but the 3.5 Monster Manual states that gelatinous cubes weigh about 15,000 pounds. This figure seems to imply that the protoplasm of a cube is significantly less dense than water.

Nice catch.

 

[CleverNickName]

It makes perfect sense to you to visualize a person leg-sweeping a 30 ton cube of water? I think you wrote that part wrong.

I did! Sorry about that. I meant to write that it makes perfect sense for me to imagine a gelatinous cube having a weight of ~60,000 pounds. Most people have a hard time understanding the weight of water. (Or worse, the weight of stone. Try casting the wall of stone spell within earshot of a real-world civil engineer.)

Part of my point is that D&D is full of similar contradictions to real-world physics which we routinely accept, and that exactly where a given thing sticks too much in our craw and contradicts our Invisible Rulebooks to an unacceptable degree is inherently personal and subjective. It's not an objective bright line. It sounds like we're largely on the same page about that per your last paragraph, but I think people in general have a tendency to lack perspective sometimes, and forget about other absurdities we've already swallowed when we encounter a new one.

That's it in a nutshell. We all assume that the absurdities we are able to swallow are universal: if we can get past it, everyone else should too, and everyone would be happier if they could just see things our way. So we roll out example after example, to predictable results.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Honestly, it's a party of explorers looking for adventure.

Or money, or glory, or respect, or to affect a rescue. Any number of reasons why someone might go into a dungeon, many of which would lead emergently to adventure.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, i know. The game rules don't give us the gravitational constant of the planet either, or the combustion equation that allows torches to work. We make these assumptions ourselves, modeling them on our own understanding here in the real world. And since that level of understanding varies from person to person, so does the interpretation of the rules.

The absurdity you are visualizing makes perfect sense to someone with a science-heavy background, or someone who solves real-world problems like this every day... so some rules require a lot more wilful suspension of disbelief to "sell it" to them. What one person csn shrug off and handwave as "superhero stuff" can be very immersion-breaking for someone else.

That's not a failing of the person or the rules. It's just an incompatibility. Some rules just won't make sense to some people. And that's where house rules come in.

And if I were to make a ruling based on my understanding of the real world, and later found out I was wrong about my understanding, I would in the future probably make that ruling differently. Unless the supernatural is involved, I prefer everything to follow real world physics to the extent gamability allows.

That's in D&D, and my preference of course. I don't feel that way about all games. Superhero games, for example, often follow genre physics, and I'm generally good with that.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Also significantly less dense than ... Jell-o.

Less than half as dense, in fact. Which makes you realize that, just maybe, the people that wrote the 3.5 MM did not, in fact, fully work out the possible density of the gelatinous cube.

Even with that reduced weight I'm not seeing any PC flipping that cube without serious supernatural aid.

 

[LordEntrails]

Being able to trip a cube means that the cube can be prone, which by definition means:

A prone creature’s only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.

That makes no sense to me.

• A cube doesn't walk or fly or crawl. It moves, maybe it wiggles, but I don't imagine it has more than one mode of movement.
• disadvantage, sure, no idea why, but "magic" is just fine.
• Why would it grant advantage on a nearby attack? What might make it vulnerable to being hit? Does it not wiggle defensively any more? And why disadvantage on a range attack? Is is smaller now? Has it fallen flat and changed it's profile to a range attacker?

At my table, cubes can not be knocked prone.