OOC Kingdom of Ashes IV - Who's yo' daddy?

[The_Universe]

Dealing with the Bluestar in any fashion should be limited to absoulte necessity. We have troops and soon we'll have some mercenaries. Yes, our forces are weak when compared to Tain's but are we willing to unleash an undead horde against living soldiers just doing their job (eventually we will have to face Tain's human troops).
We walk a dangerous path as allies of the Bluestar. Any deal we make will be a costly one.

Are all of the Bluestar's troops the walking dead?

Furthermore, no matter who you emply as troops, soldiers "just doing their jobs" are going to end up dead. On both sides.

Yes, it sucks. No, it's not possible to avoid it in the current situation (so far as I can see, anyway). Even the draconids, twisted and evil though they are, are just doing their jobs, if you think about it.

It's good to recognize that your forces are weak, but recongizing how weak they are should be a priority, as well. Can you win the war with what you have? Can you imagine a circumstance in which that is possible? If so, what is it? How can you make that circumstance a reality? It would be great if you could do this without the Bluestar, and if you can come up with a way to do it, I think you should pursue it.

But can you? I know you can fight the war without him, but can you win the war without the Bluestar's help?

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

We can attempt to pick the types of troops we are willing to use when dealing with Big Blue-- he has living servants, undead, and monsters.

And, to quote Kennon... we need to fight dirty if we expect to win this war... if we've no problem with killing the forces that are "just doing their job" then why is it any different if its a monster?

I don't like the idea of using undead to fight our fights... but, we're between a rock and a hard place. The mercs might be enough to win Caer Albion... but they are not enough to win the war... not by any stretch of the imagination.

We need to decide what we are willing to give-- and what we are willing to take from Big Blue... at this point, I think a deal with him is a necessity if we expect to win.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Also-- if the Bluestar's forces start to fight the invading Lizardfolk forces, the king's cover is blown... he can no longer claim to "fight the good fight" because the Bluestar came to the "rescue" not the king's men.

 

[The_Universe]

This is true, Mik... we know that. However, cryptic bits of wisdom aren't going to help us at this point... we're much much beyond that.

What would you suggest instead? How would you complete all the objectives that are listed on this thread without making a deal with him of some sort?

The cost will be high... but, in many ways, I think the benefit will be higher.
Through an alliance with him of some sort, we not only attain our goal of winning THIS war but weaken the Bluestar's forces for a war that will, if we beat tain, inevitable come.

Liz says it as well as I would.

This is precisely why I have asked you to really consider which of two evils is worse. I am sure the world will appreciate your efforts no matter what happens, but if you lose this war, your unwillingness to partner with evil will not have mattered one whit. There'll be no one left to remember your principaled stand.

Is the answer to wallow in evil? Absolutely not. But can you choose to use a lesser evil against a greater one? Absolutely.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Is the answer to wallow in evil? Absolutely not. But can you choose to use
a lesser evil against a greater one? Absolutely.

Exactly.

 

[The_Universe]

Also-- if the Bluestar's forces start to fight the invading Lizardfolk forces, the king's cover is blown... he can no longer claim to "fight the good fight" because the Bluestar came to the "rescue" not the king's men.

That's true. This war is also one of propaganda, and that might help you, at least a bit.

 

[Archon]

We have what about 4,000 fighting men and with mercenaries we might be able to double this number. If we can persuade the noble council, the fair elves, Sylvanus, and Jansten's leaders to join us we could get more troops. If we can save Caer Albion that would be not only a sizeable force but an excellent defensive position.
From there we pick our battles. Oceanus, Thanesport, wherever we go we keep the momentum and stay on the offensive.
The Bluestar's forces would be helpful, but i'm confident that we can fight and win this war without leaving our children a war to fight at the cost of our victory.
Instead of going with the easy solution let's see what we have and what we can get.
let's start off with what we have. Kennon can we get a complete list of all our fighting capabilities; troops, mages, beasts, siege weapons, number of fighting able but not yet trained men. A list of everything we can bring to bear on Tain.
Then let's see where we can get some more troops.
Jansten
Sylvanus
Mercs
The Fair Elves
The Nobles Populace and guard
Caer Albion
anything else?
Let's explore our other options instead of just going with the first thing offered to us. The Bluestar isn't going anywhere. Let's leave him as a back up.
mik

 

[Xath]

Also-- if the Bluestar's forces start to fight the invading Lizardfolk forces, the king's cover is blown... he can no longer claim to "fight the good fight" because the Bluestar came to the "rescue" not the king's men.

Let's just make sure this doesn't backfire on us. If the bluestar's forces start fighting the Lizardfolk, the masses who havn't been affected by the war might think that the lizardfolk are the "good guys". After all, everyone knows that the bluestar is a (not nice person). Tain could then use that to gain open support for the lizardmen, giving them free access to different areas.

Even if the lizardmen continue to invade, if they take over areas efficiently enough, neighbors won't know about it until it's too late.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

From what I've heard, we've done what we can to convince the Nobles Council... (what's left of it, anyway)... and, it's not classical medieval. The Nobels do not have armies or forces of their own. So, I don't think we're getting any help there.

We've sent out a call for the elves...

We have rounded up the troops we can, Mik. That's what Jaine has been doing... and what we did in sending out the call for the elves and wizards... and by getting the Black Orcs.

For the most part, we are maxed out and all the mercs in the world aren't going to win this war for us...

(and, the more mercs we take away from the wall, the more likely it is that Big Blue can present us with a problem... and that's exactly what we need... the Bluestar to sneak up behind us while the king's forces are ahead of us.)

 

[Archon]

We Have Options

i know we can get more troops. we just need to be more pro-active about. we need to make it a high priority. we sent out a call to the elves, ok, let's go beg them for help, if we can't convince someone we beg. I will agree that times are dire but i will not agree that we need to or should ally ourselves with the Bluestar. At least not yet. I know he can help but let's get as much help elsewhere first and if that's not enough then maybe we consider freeing the Bluestar to help us.
we are very diplomatic (sans Archon), let's use it.