OOC Kingdom of Ashes IV - Who's yo' daddy?

[Archon]

Big Blue wants freedom. Are we willing to give it to him?

No.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

e) To be freed from the North
Going back to something Kennon said earlier... does he really want this? Right now he is the God of the North, the absolute ruler there. He very well may want this and I think we should consider it a very high possibility, but hey there is a chance he won't
Personally, I don't see how freeing him would give us anything. He can command and pull strings from his Northern seat. If the only way he will help is to be free? Then we start pushing time tables. See below as to why, but for the current time I would have to say NO.

I don't think it would "give" us anything directly... however, we have to take into consideration that it is something he wants. It is a very important bargaining chip that we have on our side... we may be able to have *him* give us something in return for his freedom... and we have to figure out how we are going to get around it if the answer is "No."

I'm not saying it's a good idea... but, for the most part, we've already said that wizards can practice their craft... so, he has that... Tain is on his way to defeat... and we are going to be working for that regardless of Big Blue's participation...

So, outside of his freedom... what do we have to give him?

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

what i'm saying is "the ends never justify the means"

This is a rather shocking statement for someone who left the queen alone and pregnant thereby sacrificing the legitimacy of our entire rebellion.

An alliance with the Bluestar weakens him... regardless of what happens right now, it looks like we will be fighting him when the current rebellion is done. However, we can either choose to do it after his forces have been sacrificed on our behalf... or after he has spent an additional X years strengthening his forces while watching us kill ourselves off.

If we do not strike up a deal with him now, our children will be fighting an even stronger Bluestar...

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

More importantly, we can achieve all of the goals in Caer Albion while saving the blades at the Isle through an alliance with the Bluestar...

All the while sacrificing the lives of monsters and undead--without sacrificing the lives of *our* own warriors.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

I belive that the blades on the Isle of Mourning can be sacrificed, and i also belive that we can convince some, if not all, of Tain's general's to defect.

How do you plan to get them to defect? We couldn't get anymore than 4 of the Talon Redmages to defect and the king's generals are much more dedicated to him than the Redmages.

 

[Laurel]

Just throwing something out there.

So, outside of his freedom... what do we have to give him?

A few stalwart soldiers who know the locations of the blades.
He stays behind the wall commanding his army, we get the blades for him. We first get those not found and then steal back the others. We are the only ones truly in trade or agreement with him...?..... The one in the wall is the last to go.
Blue's forces go to the isle of mourning-- there are two blades there and it's in his interest to fight there and get those blades.

 

[The_Universe]

IMO I don't think anything should talked about sacrificing or giving up on yet. We need to at least talk to them. Nothing may come from it, but we can't just not see them, just not say anything to them, just not help them! They have asked we must try at the very least.

Do you want to meet with them before or after you meet with Old Blue? I'd suggest after, if only because what you agree to do with Old Blue may alter what you can offer them.

 

[The_Universe]

1) Convincing Mik/Archonus that a deal with Big Blue is the only way... which, I think it is.
a) He hasn't given any counters that could work but we all would love ta hear em
b) The bluestar as all people can be redeemed- there is hope. He was a great hero and honored friend of loyal, lawful, good other heroes.... OOC- Darth Vader perhaps to continue our SW parallel for things.
c) We don't have to agree to side with him forever, but for now why not use him
d) if he is an ally we might be able to keep a better eye on what he is doing, what he knows, and better access to all those supplies he has.
e) We can possibly save all those suffering souls in the North but this alliance --more a stretch. If they come down to fight they can possibly actually die instead of just being undead for centuries upon centuries serving him. Those who are not undead can come out from under rule and possibly be able to choose if they go back.....
f) I know there's more...

Excellent. I agree with all of the above.

2) Determining what we have that Big Blue wants:
a) To practice his craft freely,
b) To let others practice it freely?
c) To get all the blades
d) To see Tain defeated
e) I know there's more

a)Almost certainly
b)Almost certainly
c)Definitely
d)Almost certainly.
e)Freedom, as has been mentioned, has got to be on that list. He may not actually want it, but then - he might. You have to be ready to deal with it.

 

[The_Universe]

So possible places to meet (again) after Kennon's stuff:
The Bluestar- East side of Wall, away from Sylvanus
The Mercs- Whatever side/place is closest to them as stated above so they can get thier faster and easier. Is this West side? Not actually along the wall?
Jansten- We go to whatever place they have deemed the safest spot to speak/talk. It sounded like it was in the North somewhere.

My advice is to pick a region, and confine all of your meetings to that area, even if you don't have them all in the same place. Otherwise, you'll be expending bunches of magic and time travelling that you could be using to achieve your goals. As a result, I would suggest you pick one of the cities along the wall (Sylvannus or Ceridrawn) and do most of your meetings AROUND there.

IMO I don't think anything should talked about sacrificing or giving up on yet. We need to at least talk to them. Nothing may come from it, but we can't just not see them, just not say anything to them, just not help them! They have asked we must try at the very least.

I don't think you should abandon them, but bear in mind that your rebellion, from your perspective at least, is more important than theirs. They've asked you for help, but if they win and you lose, you're still dead. At the very least, if you're going to help them, you're going to have to find a very roundabout way to do it.

We have limited time to deal with things in the North. Jansten's rebellion can remain on the schedule. But, if time is cut short, I don't think it is a necessity, right now.

They want resources from us... we don't have anything we can give at the moment... though I think they are important, I do not want to risk screwing up the mission to the Isle by meeting up with the rebellion on Big Blues turf... he's a smart guy. He knows what's going on in his frozen kingdom.

I think you're second paragraph really hits it on the head - you lack both the time and resources to really help them directly. If you're going to help them at all, it has to be indirect, and subtle. The comment about the Isle merely further illustrates the importance of meeting with the Bluestar before you meet with Jansten's rebel leaders. If you end up with no deal with the Bluestar, at least you have another chance, here. They'll still take you. If you meet with the rebels first, deal or not, you'll have jeopardized your chances with the Bluestar.

 

[The_Universe]

2) Determining what we have that Big Blue wants:
a) To practice his craft freely
b) To let others practice it freely?
We have already agreed to this, honestly if he wants we can give him the same offer serve us for one year and we will let him practice and then grant him amnesty (I doubt he would take it) He would have the option of using his magics for good or for learning and studying purposes only. Once he broke the laws and rules we are then free to try and kill him.... I know there are lots of negatives to this, but as stated don't think he would take it anyways. He has too much to lose.

That's cool, and not a bad idea. He might take it, he might not, but it's not any more or less improper than anything you've already done...the only problem is that you're at best dubiously able to restrain him if he decides to break the rules.

c) To get all the blades
We already gave him one blade, and though we sort of have another blade, it does have a soul and still isn't really 'ours'. Until something changes all the same reason's we came up with and agreed on for igosha going to him will stand for all the other blades that we get control of. That something that could change is we build a maze, traps, house to hide a blade or any of the other options out there. Only with some way to hold it resonably well can we even think about holding any blade we rescue.

Even if you can secure your blades, you still have to figure out what you're going to do with them. The Bluestar has relayed a message through AB that they need to be destroyed. Can you do the same without him?

d) To see Tain defeated
Um yes we like this goal.

At least you agree with him about something.

e) To be freed from the North
Going back to something Kennon said earlier... does he really want this? Right now he is the God of the North, the absolute ruler there. He very well may want this and I think we should consider it a very high possibility, but hey there is a chance he won't
Personally, I don't see how freeing him would give us anything. He can command and pull strings from his Northern seat. If the only way he will help is to be free? Then we start pushing time tables. See below as to why, but for the current time I would have to say NO.

Also, remember that at some point we may be freeing him anyways. We have to destroy all the blades that includes the one in the wall. It may not bring down the magic, but hedging a very good assumtion it will. I'm not agreeing to, nor promoting that we agree to free him now, but just reminding us that it will happen eventually no matter what.

He probably wants to be freed. If you're going to refuse, just remember that you have to have something equivalent to put on the table to gain his aid. What's that going to be?

If you decide you're actually willing to let him out (or assume that it's unavoidable) is there a better time to do it than now? Are you going to be the little Japanese army, shooting at Godzilla, or are you going to go ahead and let Godzilla and Mecha-ghidra fight it out? I know it's a silly example, but I think it get's the point across...