OOC Kingdom of Ashes IV - Who's yo' daddy?

[The_Universe]

But do the means justify the ends?

I understand everyone is eager to negotiate with the Bluestar and i do realize the benefits of an alliance with him, what i'm saying is "the ends never justify the means",

I don't think it's any easier to negotiate with the Bluestar than it is to negotiate with Tain's generals, or anyone else for that matter. The ends may not justify the means (although I would contend that they sometimes do), but nor can the means justify the ends. If you don't ally and somehow lose, you'll have no children or grandchildren who can pat themselves on the backs for there forefathers and foremothers moral rectitude. The road to hell is not paved with evil intention.

Of course, if you manage to win without the help of the Bluestar, it will be cake and pinatas all around. The question remains - is that likely? Possible, even?

and if we do make this alliance we are leaving our children a war to fight.

While possible, this is not necessarily true. You'll only leave your children with another war to fight if your terms are so stringent that they cannot allow for peace. Furthermore, you must ask yourself if even if you win this war without the Bluestar, will there be no battles left to fight? The lands of the Lord Miagi and Master Ryoko's people has been lost to the same thing that now plagues you. What of them? Where have these draconids come from? If you defeat them here and now, will they disappear?

I could contend that the issue is not whether you leave your children to fight a war, but rather what war you leave them to fight, if your children have the luxury of living at all.

In a place far from Aeres, the United States allied with the USSR, only to turn against its former ally and fight a war on a hundred battlefields that lasted over 30 years. Although Yosef Stalin was hardly an undead sorcerer, he was a bad dude. There was (and is) a moral high ground. The question you must ask is if it's really worth walking.

I belive that the blades on the Isle of Mourning can be sacrificed,

Why? What do you gain by sacrificing them? What do you lose? Does this serve your cause? Does it serve any cause?

and i also belive that we can convince some, if not all, of Tain's general's to defect. When all of humanity is threatend by the shadow of Tiamat, it should lend to a more unified resistence. We just need to spread the word to the right people.

A noble goal - how are you going to do it? Where are Tain's generals? His soldiers? They're apparently not defending Caer Albion...

It should be fairly obvious that the people of Caer Albion asked the King for help before they asked you. So, simply showing up and saying, "bad things are happening" is unlikely to be enough. I think I spoke of it above, but the best you can EXPECT from the King's forces is that they won't follow orders if asked to fight you. You might get more, but it would be insane to depend on it.

Therefore, we should focus on Caer Albion and not the North.

I think everyone agrees that Caer Albion is your number one priority. All of the negotiations and growing plans mentioned above all revolve around making the preservation of Caer Albion possible. You can't do it with what you have, without leaving your current home wide open for attack. You need help.

Saving Caer Albion should be our number one priority because...
1.) Innocent lives are at stake.

Agreed - no one's arguing that this needs to be done. The arguments are about HOW.

2.) A victory there makes us National heroes and brings The Banner of the Phoenix into the Light.

It would help, yes.

3.)The Talons are based there and would make powerful allies

Yes they would, although you can likely only expect aid and succor from the Talons you deal with directly, and even then only those who are stationed inside Caer Albion.

4.)There might be information there about destroying the Spirit Blades

No argument there. You can probably get this, regardless of if you help.

5.)Once victory is established, convincing Tain's general's to defect should become easier

Why will this make it easier? You've already pushed back a draconic army, and they haven't come calling. How does this change the case you already have? Furthermore, I'm not sure you know if Tain's generals are there. The army of Prydein and its general is usually based in Caer Albion, but they were sent North months ago to fight the Bluestar. If they've not been slaughtered whoselale, they're probably up near or above the Wall.

6.)Caer Albion provides an excellent defensive base of operations

It sure does, but you can't simultaneously defend Caer Albion and Hyrwl/New Oceanus with what you have, as far as I know. You need help. Mercenaries are a start - where are the rest?

7.)They asked for our help.

Yes they did. And you're going to help them.

Now, i agree we need to go north and talk with Jansten's rebels and the mercs, but i think we should 'port to Caer Albion first and let them know help is on the way.

Not a bad idea.

We could take Fraerithier with us and while we are negotiating in the north Fraerithier could be conversing with Caer Albion's generals, gathering info and plotting our forces best tactical deployment.

Frarathir's not going to make a plan for you. Think of him as a guy who'll pass along orders and do some to the dirty work for you, but no more. He's also not much of a diplomat, which you should recall from before. He believes in the Archonus school of persuasion, and that alone (Freckles, anyone?).

We also need a method of transporting thousands of men from the north to Caer Albion do we have access to this kind of power?
-mik

You have some portal stones, as well as access to spells like Lesser Gate. That's what I can think of.

You've done an admirable job of reminding us why Caer Albion is important, but I don't think that's ever been in question. The thing that still has to be answered is this:

If you're not going to use the Bluestar, what and who are you going to use, and how are you going to get them?

 

[The_Universe]

So, outside of his freedom... what do we have to give him?

Another million dollar question.

An alliance with the Bluestar weakens him... regardless of what happens right now, it looks like we will be fighting him when the current rebellion is done. However, we can either choose to do it after his forces have been sacrificed on our behalf... or after he has spent an additional X years strengthening his forces while watching us kill ourselves off.

If we do not strike up a deal with him now, our children will be fighting an even stronger Bluestar...

And you will be even weaker, having expended your resources alone to fight the serpentblood. It's a double whammy.

If you truly believe that war with the North is inevitable, then you're better off loosing his forces completely now, so that you can have a chance to defeat him later.

More importantly, we can achieve all of the goals in Caer Albion while saving the blades at the Isle through an alliance with the Bluestar...

All the while sacrificing the lives of monsters and undead--without sacrificing the lives of *our* own warriors.

That's how I see it, anyway. But I let the story goes where it goes, and the dice fall where they may.

A few stalwart soldiers who know the locations of the blades.
He stays behind the wall commanding his army, we get the blades for him. We first get those not found and then steal back the others. We are the only ones truly in trade or agreement with him...?..... The one in the wall is the last to go.
Blue's forces go to the isle of mourning-- there are two blades there and it's in his interest to fight there and get those blades.

The blades are a good start, but may not be equivalent to his freedom. Expect him to frame it in seemingly (at least) beneficial terms - he can only bring some of his resources south to help you so long as he is imprisoned. Weapons and his less-than-alive servants (even constructs) cannot pass south of the wall in any number, so he can give you armies, but no equipment....unless, of course, the wall (and the ward) comes down...

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

The blades are a good start, but may not be equivalent to his freedom.

So, here's my fear: giving him the blades somehow gives him a way to get past the wall.

However, we may be able to have that fear taken care of in another round of Communism?

 

[The_Universe]

Lastly, do we want to set up another commune time? A way to talk to Jaine about the current situation electronically?

 

[The_Universe]

So, here's my fear: giving him the blades somehow gives him a way to get past the wall.

However, we may be able to have that fear taken care of in another round of Communism?

That's possible, but you don't know how likely. Communing certainly can't hurt.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Lastly, do we want to set up another commune time? A way to talk to Jaine about the current situation electronically?

I think we can assume that Xath, Justice, and L'Aurel explained the situation to Jaine. We need to be moving forward... and, that's something we can check off of our list.

Leave the decision in her hands.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

I'm all for Communing to discover some answers, though.

 

[The_Universe]

I think we can assume that Xath, Justice, and L'Aurel explained the situation to Jaine. We need to be moving forward... and, that's something we can check off of our list.

Leave the decision in her hands.

Not just about her predicament - the other stuff, as well. She's the Queen, she needs to know what you're thinking/planning.

EDIT: If I set up a convo in the IC thread or over Gmail, and declare that "everyone" is in the room, can we start hammering this stuff out? The pregnancy thing remains an issue, but it won't be/shouldn't be the sole focus.

Is that agreeable?

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Not just about her predicament - the other stuff, as well. She's the Queen, she needs to know what you're thinking/planning.

EDIT: If I set up a convo in the IC thread or over Gmail, and declare that "everyone" is in the room, can we start hammering this stuff out? The pregnancy thing remains an issue, but it won't be/shouldn't be the sole focus.

Is that agreeable?

That'll work... I'm leaving right now... so, it would be best for me if we started it tomorrow.

**Let's just get the pregnancy thing figured out as soon as possible. It's been on the table for far, far too long and there's so little *we* can do about it... it's really your decision, now Kennon.

 

[The_Universe]

Hint Hint

**Let's just get the pregnancy thing figured out as soon as possible. It's been on the table for far, far too long and there's so little *we* can do about it... it's really your decision, now Kennon.

As I have said before, everything is connected. She believes in her kingdom, but she does not want to marry Archonus Arendorr, unless something big changes there. She *might* be willing to marry Archonus Bluestar so long as she had a reasonable guarantee that at least one of her children would be out of his influence, and might be *more* fond of the idea if she was getting something more than a fake father and real husband out of the deal.

Essentially, she recognizes what might be asked of her to finalize any deal with the Bluestar (or with Jansten's rebels), and doesn't want to decide anything out of hand that will conflict with that.

You can get into more details IC, if you'd like. I'd prefer, for story reasons, to have it out (at least partially) that way. It might come up because it's all connected, but it won't be the focus.