Order your Star Wars films

[Warpiglet]

Which one are you thinking of? Because this doesn't just happen in the movie once, and in both cases it's utterly bizarre in the context of what we have been told thus far about the characters. I mean, at least Tanis and Kitiara have a history, so that their relationship makes some sense.

More to the point, as abysmally bad as the Holiday Special was and is, it doesn't undermine the integrity of the original trilogy. It might undermine the integrity of the actors that appeared in it, but it doesn't attack the basic story.

TFA/TLJ belong in the netherworld of works that actively undermine what made a good work of art good, alongside almost everything in the Potterverse since the conclusion of the original stories (particularly 'Cursed Child'), Tolkien's decision to try to completely rewrite his foundation myths in the midst of writing the Silmarillion, Orson Scott Card's rewrite of 'Ender's Game' in 'Ender's Shadow', and Lucas himself tinkering with his original classics with the various 'Special Edition' edits.

But in most of those cases, you have an author questioning themselves and attacking the integrity of their original works. In the TFA/TLJ case, you have another author undermining the integrity of another author's work.

Very closely mirrors my thoughts though I was excited by the force awakens at times.

My gripe about tlj was that it seemed wildly incongruent with how I felt about Luke and really the force. Whatever. Struck me as very off.

It did not seem like a continuation of the originals. It seemed like revisionist history.

Maybe just maybe the rise of skywalker will rally and establish balance to the force.

Or not. It will be ok. I've always got d&d....

 

[Hussar]

I always find it funny that folks can't simply dislike something. It's never good enough to say, "Yeah, I didn't like that". No, whatever they dislike has to be garbage, or undermining what came before, or poorly written, or whatever. Because, heaven forbid, that anyone admit that while something isn't to their taste, that doesn't make it bad.

Oh noes, the original trilogy heroes don't get their happily ever after. Who cares? Happily ever after is boring and pointless. No, you torture your protagonists because, well, that's what you do in drama.

"Integrity of the story"? Sorry, no. Stories don't have "integrity". You want that happily ever after for the original trilogy protagonists? Write fanfic. Let the rest of us have actual meaty stories where the characters are challenged and have to rise to new challenges. The primary theme of Star Wars, as was mentioned earlier, is that the older generation constantly screws up and it's up to the next generation to fix the mistakes.

Why should the latest movies be any different?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Zardnaar]

I always find it funny that folks can't simply dislike something. It's never good enough to say, "Yeah, I didn't like that". No, whatever they dislike has to be garbage, or undermining what came before, or poorly written, or whatever. Because, heaven forbid, that anyone admit that while something isn't to their taste, that doesn't make it bad.

Oh noes, the original trilogy heroes don't get their happily ever after. Who cares? Happily ever after is boring and pointless. No, you torture your protagonists because, well, that's what you do in drama.

"Integrity of the story"? Sorry, no. Stories don't have "integrity". You want that happily ever after for the original trilogy protagonists? Write fanfic. Let the rest of us have actual meaty stories where the characters are challenged and have to rise to new challenges. The primary theme of Star Wars, as was mentioned earlier, is that the older generation constantly screws up and it's up to the next generation to fix the mistakes.

Why should the latest movies be any different?

It's more because they basically copied Luke's background, gave it to Rey and then gave her Anakins saber, Hans blaster, Hans ship, didn't follow up on plot hooks and didn't follow the internal logic of the Star Wars Galaxy.

It was also a rushed draft, over lapping with TFA. This is why Finn essentially gets the same story twice. They hinted at a bromance with Poe or Finn/Rey and then introduced a new character and doesn't follow that up.

Then there's big plot holes obvious to a casual observer such as Rey having to pilot the Falcon and Poe the TIE fighter and then a few hours later Finn can pilot a ship to Canto Bight.

They don't develop any of the villains, Kylos a mess, there's no chemistry between the cast, they kill off the one villain they do have and then use everyone that's not Rey as comic relief.

Throw in space Mary Poppins, Kylo being all over the place, Luke doing a 180 and it comes across as a mess.

 

[Hussar]

Star Wars has giant plot holes? The hell you say.

A sequel that passes things along to the next generation? Oh, the horrors. What could they possibly be thinking?

Rey can pilot the Falcon gets criticized, yet, Luke becomes an ace pilot with an X-Wing, the most advanced fighter in the setting, with zero training. Oh, right, he can fly a completely unrelated ship.

I'm just so tired of watching people put the OT on a pedestal, beyond any criticism, but, the new movies get held to an impossible standard.

 

[Zardnaar]

Star Wars has giant plot holes? The hell you say.

A sequel that passes things along to the next generation? Oh, the horrors. What could they possibly be thinking?

Rey can pilot the Falcon gets criticized, yet, Luke becomes an ace pilot with an X-Wing, the most advanced fighter in the setting, with zero training. Oh, right, he can fly a completely unrelated ship.

I'm just so tired of watching people put the OT on a pedestal, beyond any criticism, but, the new movies get held to an impossible standard.

Never said anything about Rey piloting a ship.

They established Finn couldn't it's why he needed Poe. They're pilots Finn's not. Next movie Finn's flying a ship after establishing he can't lol. He's a trooper not a pilot.

They establish that Luke's a pilot before he jumps into the X wing. Rey's a bit more ambiguous, Finn can't hence why he needed a pilot right at the start of TFA.

 

[Hussar]

Never said anything about Rey piloting a ship.

Then there's big plot holes obvious to a casual observer such as Rey having to pilot the Falcon

Huh?

 

[Zardnaar]

Huh?

Yeah badly worded. I meant Rey and Pie flying ships because Finn can't. At least in TFA.

In interview s Rian Johnson iirc said they had no overarching plans for the trilogy. I suspect it will end up feeling disjointed compared to the other two trilogies. You'll end up with a ANH remake, First order being awesome and First Order being sidelined/folded into Palps is back.

By that I mean building up the First Order and Smoke was semi pointless due to part 3. But they had to bring Palps back due to pt 2 they don't have time to develop a new villain.

There's 4 things they can do with Kylo in the last movie he lives/dies and is redeemed/not redeemed.

If Kylo died and is redeemed we're back where we were at the end of RotJ makes this new trilogy essentially pointless. If he dies it makes the Skywalker saga semi pointless there's no Skywalker's left.

Sure Rey might take the name or found a new order named Skywalker's bit then you have 3 generations of Skywalker's essentially suffer, die wash rinse repeat and then their name gets taken by another.
Probably not a very satisfying finish.

If Kylo died but doesn't redeem still not very satisfying has a worse outcome than Vader.

I suppose he could live but I doubt they will do that although it's probably a better ending than duplicating RotJ ending. Original they are not.

 

[Hussar]

See, I never judge a movie based on how I want it to end. What's the point of watching a movie (or reading a book) where you dictate to the creator how it ends? Where you feel so much ownership over someone else's work that in your mind, a work is good or bad depending on how closely it follows what you think is a good ending?

No thanks.

 

[Zardnaar]

See, I never judge a movie based on how I want it to end. What's the point of watching a movie (or reading a book) where you dictate to the creator how it ends? Where you feel so much ownership over someone else's work that in your mind, a work is good or bad depending on how closely it follows what you think is a good ending?

No thanks.

As long as the ending good it doesn't matter what I expect.