Order your Star Wars films
Sadras
Legend
What I have found about myself is that I'm more forgiving of movies when I watch them years later.
So I enjoyed the originals, then became disillusioned with the entire SW universe when I saw the prequels on the big screen. I watched them recently and was less bothered despite the issues I had. Of the new ones I have only bothered to watch Rogue One and I was not impressed. Perhaps in a few years if I watch it (and the others), I will appreciate it more.
I did the same with the marvel movies before the 2-part Avengers 3 came out. I believe it has to do with enjoying the serialised aspect of watching a group of connected movies as opposed to them being stand-alone movies where one, perhaps, critiques it more harshly. Also there is something to be said watching them back to back in the comfort of one's home.
Has anyone else experienced this?
So I enjoyed the originals, then became disillusioned with the entire SW universe when I saw the prequels on the big screen. I watched them recently and was less bothered despite the issues I had. Of the new ones I have only bothered to watch Rogue One and I was not impressed. Perhaps in a few years if I watch it (and the others), I will appreciate it more.
I did the same with the marvel movies before the 2-part Avengers 3 came out. I believe it has to do with enjoying the serialised aspect of watching a group of connected movies as opposed to them being stand-alone movies where one, perhaps, critiques it more harshly. Also there is something to be said watching them back to back in the comfort of one's home.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Celebrim
Legend
I'm rather the reverse. I'm always more critical of movies the more that I watch them. I can't think of a movie which I didn't like, but which I had a better opinion of on rewatching. On the other hand, I can think of many movies I remember liking, but which didn't survive a rewatch.
I slept overnight on the concrete to get tickets to TPM, not because I needed to by that time, but just to be there with my fellow geeks who had loved this movie since they were tiny. And the first time I saw TPM, I thought it was OK. It was a beautiful film, and I was mostly bothered by the lack of memorable lines other than the overt insert of familiar ones. It was only on rewatching it the next day that I really started finding flaws that I found serious and which started to detract from my enjoyment.
TFA I enjoyed for the first 30 minutes or so, but then about halfway through the movie I observed I was actually bored. And the more the movie advanced, the more I was annoyed with the portrayal of Han and Leia, and the more I was annoyed how it seemed to have almost exactly the same structure and plot points as 'A New Hope', and the more I was annoyed by the illogical actions the characters were taking purely to hit the writer's desired plot points. By the end of the movie, I was actively hating the movie, and in particular I realized that all the mystery boxes that Abrams was presenting to the viewer actually didn't hold anything. I didn't know who the 'Knights of Ren' were because Abrams didn't know either. I didn't know who Rey was because Abrams didn't know either. I didn't know why Luke's academy had failed because Abrams didn't know either. I didn't know why Luke was in hiding because Abrams didn't know either. I didn't know who Snope was because Abrams didn't know either. All these supposed mysteries that Abrams was telegraphing as important to the story where just gift wrapped boxes with no gift. It was plain bad writing that didn't bode well for the future.
TLJ not only confirmed those fears, but it was just horribly written to the degree of being unprofessional. My tolerance of the movie ended within seconds with the lame straight from an after school TV show dialogue between Hux and Po which rivaled or exceeded in inanity any of the dialogue from the Star Wars TV specials, including the Holiday special.
I think I could partially forgive all the stupidity of the writing and the vapidness of the plot if Han, Leia, and Luke were given better less cynical treatments, or even if the story had been about those three failing and their failures had been something believable and foreseeable in hindsight based on their character. But Leia seems to fail only because she is a girl - which is insulting and infuriating - and Han and Luke fail in ways that are contrary to the central aspects of their character that we have seen up to that point.
There are a few things I like about the two new movies. Mark Hamill gives an incredible performance despite the poor material he's given to perform. Although the script does nothing with her character, Rey is introduced very skillfully. Both movies are for the most part beautiful films, and both directors better handle a camera than Lucas did in the prequels. Many of the locations such as Luke's island retreat are brilliantly chosen. There are occasional moments that could have been part of a better film. Luke should be challenging the goodness of the Jedi and should be demanding a change in direction, and that was something I wanted to see, but then Luke has nothing to say and is deceived again by the Jedi in a complete jerk move by Yoda that makes me dislike him now even more than Obi Wan. And the temptation by Kylo of Rey is a well done scene, albiet one which in context makes absolutely no sense given that only hours have taken place since Rey watched Kylo brutally murder his own father, a man she had a developing friendship with.
But overall, these are just bad movies, and you aren't missing anything by missing them.
Rogue One had two flaws. The first is the pacing of the first half of the movie, which is disjointed and slow. There are too many cuts between locations, and not enough going on that is meaningful. This is a minor flaw. The more serious flaw is that there is some serious illogical hoop jumping that characters are made to jump through in the middle of the movie in order to achieve certain plot points, and it's both bad and unnecessarily bad writing. In particular, I'm thinking of Rebel commands decision to continue to try to assassinate the lead engineer on the Death Star project AFTER they have learned that the Death Star is already operational, something which makes absolutely no sense at all and which could easily have been corrected. Beyond that, how much you like the story tends to be a matter of opinion. Those that like it are able to forgive the flaws given the big pay offs in the final act of the movie, and like the dark gritty tone that the movie sets and the questions that it asks about war and how clean it can really be no matter how just your cause. Those that don't like it tend to not like the dark, gritty tone, and conflict with moral ambiguity in the middle of what they have always considered escapist fantasy.
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lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
Yah.
I think it is pretty well established that a great many human judgements are not rational. They are made on an emotional level, and then we tack on rationalizations that sound good after the fact. Moreover, the emotioal judgement is made without our conscious knowledge or intent, so we don't notice them happening, and we are led to believe the rationalizations are the real reasons.
Luke and Rey's piloting are a fine example. The fact that Luke has puttered around in the equivalent of a Piper Cub is not meaningful - he's never flown in a zero-G environment. He's never flown a combat mission. But, somehow, he not only survives the Death Star Battle, but is the bestest of the bestest, and saves the day! This is like asking my friend, who does fly Piper Cubs occasionally, to get in an F-16 and duel it out against people from the Top Gun school. It makes no sense!
Which is fine. This is space opera, he's one of the heroes! He can have superpowers, and I'm okay with that. I love the movie anyway.
But, give Rey the same superpower (and heck, do us the favor of making her bump into a few things as she works it out) and OH NOES! SHE CANT DO THAT!! SHES NOT LUUUUKE!!!1!"
This does not speak to a reasoned position. It speaks to an emotional one. Which I'd also be fine with. You can have an emotional attachment to Luke that you don't to Rey, so that you forgive or overlook issues with Luke that you don't with Rey. I'd be cool with that.
But you have to admit that it is emotional. Don't give me rationalizations that don't hold up under scrutiny.
Celebrim
Legend
You mean like your post? Essentially you just set up a straw man version of one of several complaints about the new movies. You set up the argument in an irrational way. Then you proceeded to claim that your irrational version of the complaint proved the complaint was irrational.
I don't think I've ever encountered a complaint about the character of Rey that matched the argument you just gave. The complaint about Rey's competency is not that right from the start she had a couple of talents in which she was the best of the best. That's normal in any heroic fantasy for the protagonist to have a couple of talents in which they are the best.
Your post strikes me as a rationalization itself that doesn't hold up under scrutiny, because while no one I've encountered claims that the new trilogy is bad solely or even mostly because of Rey, those that have a problem with Rey don't construct the argument you've here constructed. At all. And as such, however unreasonable the complaints about Rey may or may not be, your dismissal of them seems to me to be emotional.
Agreed. The OT has many problems, but all the nitpicks are aimed at the new wave of movies. And of course, George Lucas keeps tinkering with those movies, meaning everyone has a crystallized mental copy that doesn't match what's on screen these days.
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lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
You don't get out much. This kind of argument that Umbran is talking about comes up frequently. She's a Mary Sue, not Luke or Anakin (for whatever deranged reasons). The double-standard comes up a lot, even on these boards.
