(OT) Any vegans out there?

[Azlan]

No, he's not.

He's not? I gathered that he was, based on the following...

Originally posted by Piratecat
I'm afraid that eating vegan is a lot more work than I ever dreamed it would be.

 

[Shemeska]

I might start eating meat again after we start to vat grow it and engineer out the unhealthy stuff. I can see vat grown meat coming relatively soon, but vat grown meat engineered to be healthy is a little further out.

It's been attempted before, growing isolated muscle tissue in a vat more or less. Problem being that isolated muscle strips grow pretty slowly, and have to be suspended in a media broth that is rather expensive, and itself based on fetal calf serum, or newborn calf serum. That in itself poses a problem for some people seeking an ethically whitewashed source of meat. The tissue is darn finicky with regards to to dissolved O2 and all kinds of other factors in the media and conditions of the incubation as well.

Problem with the growth media is that its considered complex media, a nice little term that means we really don't have more than a vague clue of what all is in it, and in what proportions. Each lot of FBS or newborn serum is different in minor ways from every other lot with regards to protein content, etc. The process of determining what every single protein and protein derivative, sugars, free amino acids, glycoproteins, lipoproteins, lipids, electrolytes, etc in the media we commonly use today, and what was needed for tissue growth and what could be left out would be nightmarish in the time and money needed.

Of course once that was known, it'd be possible to produce many of the componants in bacterial culture and isolate it and mix up your media from reagent jars rather than frozen cow serum. Yay biochemistry!

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: Re: Re: good luck, but beware...

well here is my snap culinary critique of the dish. and also what i would do to change it...
honestly, i am a culinary snob. simple as that.

Sorry if I wasn't clear: I was interested in a critique from someone who had tried the dish. Some specifics:

-Sesame oil instead of olive oil? Too low a burning point; won't work. The olive oil imparts a mild flavor; if you want, you could use a flavorless oil with a high burning point.
-Napa cabbage instead of kale? Unnecessary: the simmering seems to blunt the kale's bitter edge and imparts a deep sweetness to it; and the texture of the kale stands up quite well to the dish in a way that I doubt napa cabbage would do (although it's an interesting suggestion).
-Vinegar? Never! The tamari is somewhat acidic, and the garlic, pepper, and ginger provide the bite that kale needs. Vinegar would horribly clash with the dish.
-Miso would be interesting; I've never tried miso and peanut together, but maybe it would be good.
-Pressing and/or batterfrying the tofu would change the texture in a way that I don't like. As it is, the tofu is soft and succulent in the dish; this would make it crispy. I could see how some people would like it that way, but others wouldn't.

Trust me when I say I'm a cooking snob, too; I've got a batch of vanilla custard cooling on the stove now, waiting to be turned into ice cream, and when I'm done with the message I'm going to make up a batch of caramel sauce. I'd be interested in your thoughts if anyone gives the recipe a try, any feedback they have after tasting how things actually work together.

As for being able to spice and season meat, emericol: that in no way contradicts my message, which you may wish to reread. I was talking about how most meat dishes are seasoned, not about their potential.

Daniel

 

[Thorntangle]

Rather than seeing that as a slam against the "meat industry" as it appears you intend, I'd view that instead as the ultimate in business acumen.

No slam intended, just something to take into consideration. Their efficiency in using every part of the animal would put native american bison hunters to shame.

A certain segment of the market swears off your original products, so you simply change the format, and they will beat a path to your door to buy them while continuing to feel content with what they think they're avoiding. The fact that some of the more vocal of them are also quite smug about the whole thing just seals the deal.

Personally, I applaud them.

I don't understand this part, but it seems that you are saying that harvesting every available molecule from an animal came about as a result of people being vegetarians or maybe that meat producers are trying to trick vegetarians into eating their products because some of them are smug?

 

[PowerWordDumb]

No slam intended, just something to take into consideration. Their efficiency in using every part of the animal would put native american bison hunters to shame.

In that case, I share your admiration. If animals must suffer, best that they be used in their entirety. Waste is bad enough even when it's not directly related to something losing its life.

I don't understand this part, but it seems that you are saying that harvesting every available molecule from an animal came about as a result of people being vegetarians or maybe that meat producers are trying to trick vegetarians into eating their products because some of them are smug?

No, not in the least. I'm merely amused that, as usual, probably the most vocal proponants of any given cause are often the least well-informed - hence the comment about the smug folks being first in line to consume animal by-products while crowing the whole time about their lifestyle (personal experience only, I grant). Probably the same folks who used to harangue me in college about the evils of meat or anything to do with animal byproducts, if I had to make a guess.

I love vegetarian dishes, and while I am unlikely ever to make a lifestyle change, I own several vegetarian cookbooks as an option to expand my culinary landscape. Whatever the motive for any given individual, it's a choice I respect, though it's not the best one for me.

Edit: I should say that I do understand the differences and shadings between vegetarianism, lacto-vegetarianism, and veganism (the food choice, not the religion), but as a meat eater, I incorrectly lump them together as "vegetarianism" in speech. Apologies if that has offended anyone.

 

[eXodus]

You've hit the nail on the head as to why I don't eat that stuff anymore. That industry is just nasty, brutish work for all involved. It's bad for the animals, bad for the people who don't get paid jack to work all day on dangerous production lines, and it's bad for the people that eat it.

I might start eating meat again after we start to vat grow it and engineer out the unhealthy stuff. I can see vat grown meat coming relatively soon, but vat grown meat engineered to be healthy is a little further out.

have you looked into the organic and free range animal proteins? it is not the chicago meat industry of the 1920's nor is it the extremist propoganda of peta and their ilk.

i think if people really knew how animals were treated on the organic and free range farms they would have a better idea about what is truly going on.

plus the support of these farming practices are gaining in strength. it truly is the future. not everyone becoming vegetarian or vegan.

i think that what would make for a better society would be if people started eating reasonable amounts of responsibly produced animal proteins in addition to a low-fat, low-carb diet loaded with plenty of organic vegetables and fruits. not to stroke my own ego, but this is how i have eaten for the last few years and i am honestly the most healthy person i know.

 

[Thorntangle]

have you looked into the organic and free range animal proteins? it is not the chicago meat industry of the 1920's nor is it the extremist propoganda of peta and their ilk.

Since you asked , it's a problem of scale and resources. Family farms and organic farms are unlikely ever to meet the demand of our population. And regardless, with the same amount of food and water required to bring a cow to slaughtering size, you could feed thousands of people instead of tens or hundreds. It is a terribly inefficient way to produce calories and protein.

And per Dinkeldog's request, let's leave PETA out of this.

 

[eXodus]

Since you asked , it's a problem of scale and resources. Family farms and organic farms are unlikely ever to meet the demand of our population. And regardless, with the same amount of food and water required to bring a cow to slaughtering size, you could feed thousands of people instead of tens or hundreds. It is a terribly inefficient way to produce calories and protein.

And per Dinkeldog's request, let's leave PETA out of this.

look at japan.

they eat very little red meat protein, but they do eat some of it. and they have very very little land in which to grow cattle upon.

i think what would make americans healthier as a whole is if we stopped seeing a need to have 6 to 10 ounces of animal proteins with each and every meal.

 

[Danzauker]

Problem is both meat and vegetables are not entirely adequated for humns.

It's true, we're omnivorous, so we can eat a bit of everything, but we don't have teeth to grind bones or cut tissues, nor we have intestines suited to process platns efficiently.

Man is a hunter-gatherer animal. Our race is biologically still a homo sapiens sapiens, the same that dwelled in caverns.

So, we should eat what a caveman would, before the development of science and social customs, which is FAR quicker than biological evolution strayed us from the path that biological evolution set for us.

We have an example in the few remaining aborigens. Basically the food we were made to eat is what we can gather by climbing trees, picking brushes, turning stones and hunting with simple tools like stones and bows.

Whic is basically fruits, small animals and insects!!!

Oh yes! Many scientist state that the worms that indigenous people in the amazons use to eat got a protein/fat/sugar composition that is the best for our metabolism.

 

[Ferret]

Warning, going vegan can cause depression in some people. My mum knew a woman who went vegitarian, and was very stressed trying not to eat meat. This may not happen to you but think about it.