D&D 4E OT: Shadowrun 4E announced

[Thanee]

Not to mention, that elves, dwarfs, orcs, trolls, vampires, shapeshifters, dragons and everything else is rather different in SR as compared to D&D.

Even the classic fantasy image isn't the same in some cases (like elves, SR elves are far from typical fantasy elves (the immortal elves in SR are close, tho, but not the regular elves)). Or compare trolls from D&D with trolls from SR - two COMPLETELY different species.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Henry]

Oh, I'm not denying the point...I'm simply surprised. See, the thing is, reading a few comments like that of our esteemed Henry...I wonder if I shouldn't feel like an arrogant ass over the fact that I believe every roleplayer with a little experience is able to grasp any roleplaying game's basic rules structure within a session or two

A word or two on that point: The system is easy enough to grasp, otherwise I wouldn't have attempted a conversion for it. But the system also breaks my enjoyment of a roleplaying game by reminding me that it's there.

I assume you've heard arguments by people who don't Gamemaster 3E anymore because they don't like doing up huge complicated stat blocks for the NPC's? To them, the system intrudes on their fun. In a similar manner, "buckets of dice" and worse, "buckets of dice" with rerolls and comparisons, grates on me. It's like someone reminding you constantly which actor is playing what part in a TV show constantly, instead of letting you enjoy the show. Alternately, it's like my Cowboy Bebop illustration earlier - I'd have never known what a cool show it was without a well-done English translation (and I'm sure there's some fan out there telling me I still "missed the nuances of the original"). Maybe I need to play more (I have no one in my current group with any interest in the game), but from the little I have played, I enjoy reading it far more than playing it, and that's not good for any RPG that wants my money. Therefore, unless something changes, Shadowrun ain't for me, and I'm cool with that.

So, to me, the point that, to play Shadowrun, people would "need" a d20 version, is simply a point that is...a bit big to swallow, lets say it like that.

I never said I need one.., I only said it'd be cool to have one that I can play without designing it from the ground up. I'll be checking into 4E's reviews at Gencon-time and see what people think of it.

 

[Lobo Lurker]

I used to play ShadowRun back in college. I LOVE the setting and the dice mechanics make it fun... but combat does take HOURS to get through.

Before saying anything else about a D20 version of ShadowRun I just wanted to point out one very important observation (one that WotC itself seems to forget): The D20 System is NOT Dungeon & Dragons. Dungeons & Dragons USES the D20 System. You know, I'd go so far as to say that Mutants & Masterminds is MORE D20ish than D&D is.

That said:
1) Would there be any benefit for making a D20 version of ShadowRun?
Yes. If this topic comes up so often then it is obvious that someone out there would like to play a D20 version of Shadowrun. Obviously market research would need to be done, but this might actually make a good product for a one-shot PDF (no/very reduced printing and distribution costs for an obviously niche product).

2) In such a version (not necessarily conversion)) would the feel of the game change?
Of course. This has been stated to death above and doesn't really need to be repeated here. But for all of you against a D20 Shadowrun, why fight about it? There are those here that want a product and would pay for it. Would such a product's existance keep you from using your 1E, 2E, 3E, or 4E books?

3) Would the change in the feel of the resolution mechanic compromise the setting?
You know, I don't think that it would. As has been stated before, the setting is just that; The setting. Its where the action takes place and where the players run amok. What does a dice resolution mechanic have to do with how the UCAS reacted when Bug City happened to Chicago?

Personally, I like 2E Shadowrun (I haven't played 1E or 3E). I also like DnD & MnM. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like the challenge of designing a D20 version of SR (though I secretly believe that White Wolf's new Storytelling system would be an easier conversion)... from the amount of posts this thread alone has generated there seem to be those among us that see merit in the idea of a D20 Shadowrun game.

Anyhow, just my three nuyen.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

So no ones upset that this is their 4th edition in 16 years?

Must be nice to not be WotC.

 

[Kestrel]

Well, not all of that money goes for cyberware - it also goes for cost of living (and the PCs in my campaign do love to party), bribing and maintaining contacts, getting specialized equipment that is only useful for a certain type of mission, and getting smuggled out of town if they have enemies hot on their trail. Really, this part of the resource management is one of the most fun aspects of the game, and simply hand-waving it away by charging experience points for gear and cyberware would cheapen it.

Yes, using the M&M system would require some handwaving on the money part, probably moving the reasons for doing runs to more roleplaying reasons, like influence with the corp, your contacts, or just for lifestyle perks. Less about actual cash numbers.

To be honest, in the 10+ years that I played SR, I've seen very little actual pay from runs being turned into gear or cyberware advancement. Most of the upgrades I saw came from organlegging/salvaging from dead samurai. The costs for upgrading starting gear was simply too expensive to expect your run payments to cover it. And when you consider the costs of doing a run, you usually end up just breaking even when you're done.

Yes, using a different system would require some changes in the way you think about the game, but I think it would probably be for the better.

Looking at the FAQ for 4e, looks like SR is going to be changing the system anyway. I would rather go with one that only requires one book and some creativity than one that is going to cost me 100+ after the supplements are done.

(I just looked at my SR shelf, with the complete systems for 1e, 2e, and 3e. Not going down that road again)

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I used to play ShadowRun back in college. I LOVE the setting and the dice mechanics make it fun... but combat does take HOURS to get through.

Before saying anything else about a D20 version of ShadowRun I just wanted to point out one very important observation (one that WotC itself seems to forget): The D20 System is NOT Dungeon & Dragons. Dungeons & Dragons USES the D20 System. You know, I'd go so far as to say that Mutants & Masterminds is MORE D20ish than D&D is.

I wouldn't say that, either - Mutants & Masterminds isn't d20, and in fact has much less in common with the SRD than D&D.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Looking at the FAQ for 4e, looks like SR is going to be changing the system anyway. I would rather go with one that only requires one book and some creativity than one that is going to cost me 100+ after the supplements are done.

Hmmm. Interesting. We will see how this turns out. Depends on how much or how little it has to do with the older editions of SR, the argument of d20 versus non-d20 might be moot - it might end up as an entirely different system anyway...

 

[Super Girl]

Hmmm. Interesting. We will see how this turns out. Depends on how much or how little it has to do with the older editions of SR, the argument of d20 versus non-d20 might be moot - it might end up as an entirely different system anyway...

Classes and Levels, as long as those are not added, its all good.

 

[Thanee]

Or hit points...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lobo Lurker]

Or hit points...

Agreed.