PDF vs Print materials

[Gargoyle]

We recently decided to go the PDF route with our products, at least for now.

I've got mixed feelings about it, both as a customer and publisher.

As a customer, I like the instant availability and value of PDFs. And I like the ability to download an updated copy with errata applied later. I love Malhavoc's Book of Eldritch Magic, for instance. But I still prefer the feel and utility of printed books and I'm willing to pay more for them. Also, I dislike paying for a PDF, then paying full price for the printed version later.

As a small publisher (small even by d20 standards!), avoiding the costs and labor of printing and getting the product out quickly is very attractive. I'd rather be a game design studio than a full-fledged publisher, and would prefer to not deal with the headaches of printing, warehousing and distribution. On the other hand, PDFs are probably much less profitable due to piracy and a much more limited market.

So our plan is to release Beyond Monks and our other products in PDF form, then print them later if it seems there is demand. I'd also like to give a discount to purchasers of our PDFs on the future printed versions, but at this point I'm not sure it's technically or financially feasible, so no guarantees on that.

In the ideal world, the PDF product and the printed product will become available at the same time giving the customer a choice: Download the PDF for less or buy the printed product for more, with the increased cost reflecting only the additional costs for distribution and printing. If you buy the printed copy, you can download the PDF for free. And if you purchase the PDF, you get a discount on the printed product. And you would be unable to e-mail or copy the PDF file, (but could download it again if you needed to) to discourage piracy. Hopefully we'll get to this point.

 

[Gargoyle]

Originally posted by Cergorach
One complaint though, why do most pdf publishes seem to forget that there's a world beyond America? Down here in europe, we use A4 for standard paper format instead of Letter!

I hate to state the obvious, but we American's have a hard time putting ourselves in the place of others. I just didn't think of this until I read your post. I'll make sure we do an A4 version of all of our products. And I'd love to hear any more suggestions for making our stuff more internationally marketable.

 

[DAldredge]

How do you plan on stoping e-mail/copying?

How do you plan on stoping e-mailing / copying of your PDF's?



[ And if you purchase the PDF, you get a discount on the printed product. And you would be unable to e-mail or copy the PDF file, (but could download it again if you needed to) to discourage piracy. Hopefully we'll get to this point. [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[Cergorach]

Re: How do you plan on stoping e-mail/copying?

How do you plan on stoping e-mailing / copying of your PDF's?

No offense at Gargoyle, but he can't (trust me), he can only discourage copying. Anything that can be viewed, can be copied. My advice to publisher, don't even try, it will annoy legitimate users to no end, and will not even hinder the "Warez" sites out there. It's better to invest that extra cash in a good product and impress us so that we want to give you money...

Gargoyle: How do you intend to give a discount on a printed product? You can't expect game stores to give that discount, thus people would have to order from you directly, giving distributors/gamestores even less incentive to buy/distribute your products. Making a printed version even more unlikely...

 

[Gargoyle]

Re: How do you plan on stoping e-mail/copying?

How do you plan on stoping e-mailing / copying of your PDF's?



[ And if you purchase the PDF, you get a discount on the printed product. And you would be unable to e-mail or copy the PDF file, (but could download it again if you needed to) to discourage piracy. Hopefully we'll get to this point.

I can't right now. Adobe is coming out with a new technology for e-books that supposedly will do so, but I don't know when that will be out, if it will be effective, or if it will be a pain to the customer. Note that I said "Ideally", as in a perfect world. It's likely that piracy of electronic media will always be a reality. When publishing PDFs, the reality is that piracy exists, and you will suffer opportunity costs, in that if Customer A gives a copy to Potential Customer B, no money is made off of Customer B.

Note that if Customer B was broke and unable to buy it anyway, or had no intentions of purchasing it, then I have suffered no opportunity cost. In fact, I have just gained some free word of mouth advertising. Customer B may actually have money later and decide to buy one of my products based on his illegal review of the pirated product. Or maybe he decides that he does like it enough to pay for it and pays for an electronic copy later, or a printed copy even further in the future. So in some cases, this piracy is not a bad thing and serves more as free advertising.

 

[Gargoyle]

Re: Re: How do you plan on stoping e-mail/copying?

No offense at Gargoyle, but he can't (trust me), he can only discourage copying. Anything that can be viewed, can be copied. My advice to publisher, don't even try, it will annoy legitimate users to no end, and will not even hinder the "Warez" sites out there. It's better to invest that extra cash in a good product and impress us so that we want to give you money...

Gargoyle: How do you intend to give a discount on a printed product? You can't expect game stores to give that discount, thus people would have to order from you directly, giving distributors/gamestores even less incentive to buy/distribute your products. Making a printed version even more unlikely...

No offense taken. As an analogy, consider that it's a proven fact that computer games that are copy protected have better sales than those without any sort of protection. Retailers often put pressure on publishers to put this sort of protection on to prevent returns. I believe this extends into electronic media. Locks keep honest men honest.

Note that I understand that computer games with annoyingly buggy copyright protection or that cause their users to do backflips to get the product they paid for to work do NOT enjoy additional sales. I would never implement security measures that inhibit the enjoyment of a product by legitimate customers, and would rather suffer losses due to piracy.

I agree that anything that can be viewed can be copied. Making it difficult to do so for those with average technical skill without making the legitimate use of the product inconvenient WILL increase sales, however. There's nothing to prevent you from copying the PHB or any other printed product and selling it, for instance, except that it's not worth it to do so. Increasing the cost of piracy is the goal, not eliminating it. But as I've said, I think piracy of documents is just part of the cost of doing business, so I have not plans right now to implement any kind of security.

As far as the discount on a printed product, the answer is "I don't know". I haven't figured it out yet and only hope to do it. No promises. As I posted earlier: "I'd also like to give a discount to purchasers of our PDFs on the future printed versions, but at this point I'm not sure it's technically or financially feasible, so no guarantees on that. "

I do think it's possible. My current thoughts are this: I'd have to keep a database of everyone's e-mail address who downloads it electronically (This part's easy). Then they'd have to send a proof of purchase of the printed material in for a rebate. It's not as convenient as I'd like, and I'm open to suggestions. But trading the cost of a stamp for a few dollars is pretty reasonable. Think of it more as a manufacturer's rebate.

And there's no reason to believe this would reduce retail sales overall. Releasing simultaneous electronic and printed products in fact enhances retail sales by offering a no risk "try before you buy" option in the form of a cheap PDF. It will attract more customers who may not be willing to risk the full retail price on a product. Some retail sales will certainly be lost as some will be satisfied by having just the PDF, but I think more retail sales overall will be gained by customers who seek to try before they buy with PDFs. As far as retailers not wanting to carry the product because it's available electronically, I don't think that's likely. Most won't really know if it's available electronically or not, and those that do will still carry it if it has a nifty cover and sells well. It's a bit like saying video rental stores will force the cable company out of business or vice versa. There will always be a demand for printed product, and if there is a demand, retailers will carry it. If there's a demand for electronic product, someone will carry it that way. Fear of piracy and smaller profit margins is the main deterrant to publishers regarding the latter.

 

[Cergorach]

Re: Re: Re: How do you plan on stoping e-mail/copying?

Gargoyle:
1.) Could you give me a reference to an article that states that it's a proven fact that copy protected games have better sales. In my experience such facts are often researched using two different games (in worst case scenario Raiders-X vs. Final Fantasy IX). Just like in the music/movie business, certain parties have a vested interest in keeping certain illusions intact....
2.) Games, music and movies are rather bad examples for representing digital downloads. It often happens that kids buy a game, make a copy of it and return it, getting their money back. This doesn't happen with PDFs (unless you plan to give people their money back if they promise to delete their copy, in that case i have a beautifull peace of land in calafornia ;-).
3.) What does happen, is that it's quite easy for people to distribute PDFs. When a new PDF hits the web, within hours it's available on certain 'warez' sites, when a hardcopy product hits the game stores it's a couple of days before it's on certain 'warez' sites. Yes, this does mean that PDFs are easier to distribute, but it doesn't stop 'warez'. It just takes a little longer, 95% of the people who might use 'warez' will wait a couple of days (weeks even) to get that 'free' product. [edit]Let me explain bit about 'warez'. It's a system where small groups (or individuals) get a certain product and 'crack' it, they then distribute it across the web to all who are interested. This creates a redundant network, thus if some groups cease to function (for whatever reason), the rest of the network keeps on working. This setup requires only a few individuals with any technical expertise.Thus a few supply the many.[/edit] Why don't people seem to get this, shees!!!
4.) Copy protection on PDFs, well, we have a couple of ways. All of them are either (easily) circumventable, or the PDFs lose all functionality to the user. You mention Adobe's Ebook, i certainly don't hope publishers will start using that format, because it lacks a lot of functionality. Publishers often turn off printing capabilitys, editing functions, copy functions, i have to type my password every time i open the damned thing, can't add notes, or more horrible, i can only use it on a single computer. I will tell you and any publisher that i will not buy any products that are so protected and that i can't remove without to much hassel, some would even say (but not me) that they'll rather wait for the 'warez' copy of the product. A russian broke the last unbreakable ebook 'standaard', it shouldn't take long before this one is broken as well. A rather simple way: Use Linux > run a virtual machine > set the monitor resolution very high (1920*1440 or higher) > use the print screen button > copy paste in photoshop and voila, a copy. (no harm was intended by mentioning this example, the only reason this is mentioned is to dispel some illusions some people seem to have (thus consider this a 3rd level spell)).
5.) Interesting idea with the proof of purchase idea, but would require a lot of administaration with all the mail you'll receive. Why not try to include an unique code number with each single unit of your product. Something like a piece of thick paper with the code on it and has a layer of 'scratch' paint on it, the only way to read the number is to scratch the paint away. With this code (make it long) they can go to your web site enter their personal info and the code, the site references this to the database and if all is correct, it automatically transfers a certain amount to the persons bank account. Minimal fuss to you, maximum gratification for your customers...
6.) You intend to release PDF material at the same time as our print product? Why? One can often release a PDF far faster than you can release a printed product. why make people wait?

 

[Gargoyle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you plan on stoping e-mail/copying?

Gargoyle:
1.) Could you give me a reference to an article that states that it's a proven fact that copy protected games have better sales. In my experience such facts are often researched using two different games (in worst case scenario Raiders-X vs. Final Fantasy IX). Just like in the music/movie business, certain parties have a vested interest in keeping certain illusions intact....
2.) Games, music and movies are rather bad examples for representing digital downloads. It often happens that kids buy a game, make a copy of it and return it, getting their money back. This doesn't happen with PDFs (unless you plan to give people their money back if they promise to delete their copy, in that case i have a beautifull peace of land in calafornia ;-).
3.) What does happen, is that it's quite easy for people to distribute PDFs. When a new PDF hits the web, within hours it's available on certain 'warez' sites, when a hardcopy product hits the game stores it's a couple of days before it's on certain 'warez' sites. Yes, this does mean that PDFs are easier to distribute, but it doesn't stop 'warez'. It just takes a little longer, 95% of the people who might use 'warez' will wait a couple of days (weeks even) to get that 'free' product. [edit]Let me explain bit about 'warez'. It's a system where small groups (or individuals) get a certain product and 'crack' it, they then distribute it across the web to all who are interested. This creates a redundant network, thus if some groups cease to function (for whatever reason), the rest of the network keeps on working. This setup requires only a few individuals with any technical expertise.Thus a few supply the many.[/edit] Why don't people seem to get this, shees!!!
4.) Copy protection on PDFs, well, we have a couple of ways. All of them are either (easily) circumventable, or the PDFs lose all functionality to the user. You mention Adobe's Ebook, i certainly don't hope publishers will start using that format, because it lacks a lot of functionality. Publishers often turn off printing capabilitys, editing functions, copy functions, i have to type my password every time i open the damned thing, can't add notes, or more horrible, i can only use it on a single computer. I will tell you and any publisher that i will not buy any products that are so protected and that i can't remove without to much hassel, some would even say (but not me) that they'll rather wait for the 'warez' copy of the product. A russian broke the last unbreakable ebook 'standaard', it shouldn't take long before this one is broken as well. A rather simple way: Use Linux > run a virtual machine > set the monitor resolution very high (1920*1440 or higher) > use the print screen button > copy paste in photoshop and voila, a copy. (no harm was intended by mentioning this example, the only reason this is mentioned is to dispel some illusions some people seem to have (thus consider this a 3rd level spell)).
5.) Interesting idea with the proof of purchase idea, but would require a lot of administaration with all the mail you'll receive. Why not try to include an unique code number with each single unit of your product. Something like a piece of thick paper with the code on it and has a layer of 'scratch' paint on it, the only way to read the number is to scratch the paint away. With this code (make it long) they can go to your web site enter their personal info and the code, the site references this to the database and if all is correct, it automatically transfers a certain amount to the persons bank account. Minimal fuss to you, maximum gratification for your customers...
6.) You intend to release PDF material at the same time as our print product? Why? One can often release a PDF far faster than you can release a printed product. why make people wait?

1. Nope, I can't. You'll have to trust me on this one. Yeah I know, I can't trust you, so you can't trust me... I've read it several gaming magazines, sorry I can't remember where. Check out back issues of PC Gamer and Computer Gaming World and look for the many rants on copyright protection. I have a feeling even if I gave you a reference, you wouldn't trust them! That's ok, my fault for stating something is a "fact" without being able to back it up. Let's correct that and say it's my informed opinion.
2. No analogy is perfect, but I think the one I made was pretty valid.
3. Crooks certainly work hard to avoid work. I know I can't (and nobody can) stop people from stealing. I do believe we should make it difficult for them to do so, and punish them when they are caught, that's all.
4. I wasn't talking about Adobe's e-book, but another product they haven't released yet, and something they may never release. (Weblink or something like that? Again, I read a lot but don't bookmark everything. I'd make a lousy lawyer. ) In any case, I agree that inhibiting the legitimate user's ability to use the product is unacceptable. My conclusion is that currently an electronic publisher will just have to suck it up and take some losses.
5. Great idea. How do I do that, without hiring a programmer? Seriously, it has to be low tech and cost-effective, at least for us. It's much easier for me to deal with a volume of mail than to deal with anything like this. Larger publishers might do well to follow your advice here though. (and hopefully we'll be large some day...)
6. It would make customers wait longer, and that's a good point. Perhaps the ideal situation would be to release the PDF, and then release the printed copy three months later. Again, I wasn't outlining my business plan, just thinking aloud about what the ideal situation might be. I certainly don't have all the answers, that's why I value discussions like this.

 

[SableWyvern]

Re: Re: How do you plan on stoping e-mail/copying?

Note that if Customer B was broke and unable to buy it anyway, or had no intentions of purchasing it, then I have suffered no opportunity cost. In fact, I have just gained some free word of mouth advertising. Customer B may actually have money later and decide to buy one of my products based on his illegal review of the pirated product. Or maybe he decides that he does like it enough to pay for it and pays for an electronic copy later, or a printed copy even further in the future. So in some cases, this piracy is not a bad thing and serves more as free advertising.

I'm a point in case for that. The reason I'm playing 3e is that, from out of nowhere, a friend handed me a CD jam packed with AD&D and 3e stuff because he thought I might be interested.

I'm now in the process of buying the stuff that I got illegally, so WotC got a customer out of the whole thing.

Not that that necessarily makes it right ... but I have difficulty feeling guilty about it.

 

[Davelozzi]

Davelozzi:
1.) BoEMII is $7 and contains 64 pages and should be about $12.95 (guess) for the printed version.

Right, just like I said.

2.) I don't mind it if someone doesn't like something, everyone's entitled to his/her opinion. But please be quiet if you do not know what your talking about (no offense). Monte did not include a readme file for nothing, it clearly indicates that you should print BoEMII (or any pdf for tht matter) in batches, otherwise the big spooling file that the printing action will generate will slow your computer down to no end. And if i remember correctly, it also mentioned that you might want to print in greys only to spare your expensive color cardridge. Monte also starts to explain how to remove the headers and images, but he seems to forget that one needs the full version of Acrobat for that (a rather expensive product). [/B]

Actually I read the read me file and did print it in batches. Also I understand that I could have chosen to print in greyscale but wanted the color. Color is nice to have to call out headers and for illustrations and the like. But a big wash of thick color that serves no purpose seemed a little over the top for something that was designed to be printed.

3.) Hearing about the washed out an blueisch look of your prints i think that your color cardridge is almost empty (just wait for the quality of the prints when it's empty ;-).[/B]

Again, as I suggested might be the problem.

4.) This seems a clear case of RTFM (Read The Fncking Manual), if you had read the readme file this could have aleviated your annoyances. And your giving the PDF the blame because YOU don't know how your printer works (or when the color cradrige is empty). [/B]

Again, not the case. Try not to let these things get you so bent out of shape, okay?