D&D 5E (2014) People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[Charlaquin]

Huh. I said exactly the same thing and got pilloried for it.

I waited until we got confirmation that the majority didn’t like the psionic die before saying it

 

[cbwjm]

Slight tangent, but I think this may have just inspired my next houserule: cure wounds restores hit points as if the target had spent a Hit Die (including Constitution bonus) per spell slot level. The other healing spells will need to be similarly adjusted. Maybe healing word restores only half the hit points from spending the Hit Dice or something.

You could have them heal the same and grant the target the ability to spend a hit die to heal. Gives a good baseline heal while also restoring more hit points based on hit die spent.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Oh the DM isn't the one who buys all the book... though I think the guy does DM another game I'm not in?

Maybe I should just try to find more DnD friends... once the plague is over I guess...



It baffles me that the Cleric and Bard only have ONE attack cantrip in the PHB! That means that if you want to do the caster option of both class you just end up doing the same thing over and over and over and over again no matter the build! It sucks. At least Vicious Mockery helps protect your allies by doing disadvantage.

I miss being able to smack a dude with my weapon, and then the next ally who follows my exemple gets temp HP! That was ace! Or gets a bonus to hit.

And I liked to do the support thing at will. Busting out Bless, Shield of Faith or Cure Wounds once or twice a day doesn't make me feel like I'm a support character much.



And I thank you for that support.

This. At-will support is sorely missing. I often saw people saying that an at-will boost would need to be soooo small that it would be mostly useless.

Guess what, I dont mind. I dont need my at-will support options to be incredible, or even mathematically good, is just want to be able to give + something to a companion each round, I want to play the bard/white mage from Final Fantasy where they just never attacked.

In the playtest, they had a Cure Minor Wound as a cantrip. It cured 1 HP to a living creature under 3 hp within 50 ft.
I would do something like this:

Healing chant (cantrip)
Action
Evocation
V,S
cleric/bard

Choose any number of ally within 30 ft of you that can hear you. You can divide up to your Spellcasting ability mod in HP between them. given that the ally have less than half its HP but more than 0 HP.

Sound Mote (cantrip)
Bonus action
Range: self
Conjuration
V,M
bard

You conjure 1 to 3 magical notes and imbue them with magic. You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the notes by throwing it by hand of through a musical instrument. A note has a range of 60 feet. If someone else attacks with a note, that attacker adds your spellcasting ability modifier, not the attacker's, to the attack roll. On a hit, the target takes thunder damage equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting ability modifier.

If you cast this spell again, the spell ends any other note still affected by your previous casting.

Leading strike
Action
Range: 1 creature in 5ft.
Evocation
S (a weapon)
Bard/Cleric

As part of casting this spell, you make a weapon attack. On a hit, the target take the normal weapon's damage. The next ally that hit the target before the start of your next turn deal + Spellcasting ability modifier thunder damage and gain 3 THP.

At 5th level, the extra damage increases to +1d6 damage and the THP increases to 5, at 11th level the damage increases to +1d8 damage and 7 THP and at 17th level the damage increases to +1d10 and the THP increases to 9.

Accelerando (cantrip)
Action
Range 1 creature within 60 ft
Enchantment
V,S
Bard

Until the end of their next turn, the target's speed increases by 10 ft.

Rallentando (cantrip)
Action
range: 1 creature within 60 ft.
Enchantment
V,S
Bard

The creature must make a Dex saves or their speed is halved until the end of your next turn.


Are those spells a waste of action in optimization terms? Yeah, sure, but I'm sure players who love to go full support would appreciate having them.

 

[Minigiant]

It baffles me that the Cleric and Bard only have ONE attack cantrip in the PHB! That means that if you want to do the caster option of both class you just end up doing the same thing over and over and over and over again no matter the build! It sucks. At least Vicious Mockery helps protect your allies by doing disadvantage.

I miss being able to smack a dude with my weapon, and then the next ally who follows my exemple gets temp HP! That was ace! Or gets a bonus to hit.

And I liked to do the support thing at will. Busting out Bless, Shield of Faith or Cure Wounds once or twice a day doesn't make me feel like I'm a support character much.

It seem there was a clear design choice to make attack cantrip versatility a sorcerer niche with wizard being the second best. Clerics and druids seemed to be clearly designed to be secondary in cantrip offense and weapon offense to the mages and warriors in every way unless they use spell slots.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

They take risks, they just don't ask people to pay for the risks until they've taken them for a test run.

They are taking smarter risks than they used to, because they get the idea out there and are able to see how it is received before nailing it in a publication.

Waiting for 70% of the audience to approve of something is literally the opposite of "taking risks".

And that's totally fine, but don't play it off as "taking smart risks". It isn't. None of the risks 5E has taken post-release have been mechanical. The way that they're running UA, if you are correct and they are being 100% truthful about it, ensures no risks are taken in the mechanical sphere.

Actually I can think of mechanical risks, but they all seem to have been accidental - i.e. massively changing Dragonmarks for no good reason just before release of Eberron, and turning them into total junk that conflicts with the setting (where the previous design was completely appropriate).

It seem there was a clear design choice to make attack cantrip versatility a sorcerer niche with wizard being the second best. Clerics and druids seemed to be clearly designed to be secondary in cantrip offense and weapon offense to the mages and warriors in every way unless they use spell slots.

Seems like that design was abandoned pretty rapidly, though.

 

[Minigiant]

Seems like that design was abandoned pretty rapidly, though.

Because everything outside the PHB is optional
If 4E style canrips are in a Nethir Vale book, a table gets less flack for not using it in FR.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

It seem there was a clear design choice to make attack cantrip versatility a sorcerer niche with wizard being the second best. Clerics and druids seemed to be clearly designed to be secondary in cantrip offense and weapon offense to the mages and warriors in every way unless they use spell slots.

Except for the fact that they do get some of the strongest offensive cantrips in the game. Heck, consider the fact that most enemies after a certain level rely more on natural/heavy armor then high Dex and you soon realize that "sacred flaming" is much more reliable than attacking, even better if you're also "spiritual weaponing" those opponents with your bonus action (and you should). I must agree that druids don't have it so easy, though. But they do get a bit more versatility with shillelagh and thorn whip. Our resident druid just finds it a bit frustrating that "thorn whipping" is not usually a good option because the lack of decent tactical combat makes it pointless to create forced movement on the battlefield.

Ok, sorry if I'm bothering you all. Maybe at this point, I should be at the PF forums trying to understand how to make it work for me and my players...

 

[Undrave]

It seem there was a clear design choice to make attack cantrip versatility a sorcerer niche with wizard being the second best. Clerics and druids seemed to be clearly designed to be secondary in cantrip offense and weapon offense to the mages and warriors in every way unless they use spell slots.

The Druid gets Poison Spray, Produce Flame, Thrown Whip, and even Shillelagh as offensive options. That's FOUR cantrips. Plus, they, can get natural weapons in wildshape. They have options.

Because everything outside the PHB is optional
If 4E style canrips are in a Nethir Vale book, a table gets less flack for not using it in FR.

If 'Toll the Dead' had been in the PHB it would have doubled the offensive choices of the Bard and Cleric and not broken anything at all. Instead we get crap like True Strike that nobody will ever use, ever.

 

[Undrave]

Waiting for 70% of the audience to approve of something is literally the opposite of "taking risks".

They should lower it to 65% or even 60% if you ask me.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There's so much really cool 3PP stuff for 5E that I am completely unconcerned about either WotC's release schedule or the proposed timeline for 'official' psionics. I know some people really don't like 3PP for some reason, but I'm not one of those people. I can't really summon up a lot of sympathy for anyone who says there aren't enough options when I already have so many great options on my shelf that I'll probably never use them all. YMMV I guess, but there is a ton of really awesome material for 5E just waiting for you to go buy it.

I mean, the reasons are many and have been expressed pretty frequently.

3PP tends to have a more...3.5 level of balance and cohesion. Even the well regarded stuff isn’t as well balanced or as coherent or as good at doing what it means to do, as the official stuff.