D&D 5E People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[Parmandur]

Waiting for 70% of the audience to approve of something is literally the opposite of "taking risks".

And that's totally fine, but don't play it off as "taking smart risks". It isn't. None of the risks 5E has taken post-release have been mechanical. The way that they're running UA, if you are correct and they are being 100% truthful about it, ensures no risks are taken in the mechanical sphere.

Actually I can think of mechanical risks, but they all seem to have been accidental - i.e. massively changing Dragonmarks for no good reason just before release of Eberron, and turning them into total junk that conflicts with the setting (where the previous design was completely appropriate).



Seems like that design was abandoned pretty rapidly, though.

They take the risks by putting them out there: they are smart by not committing to what doesn't work.

 

[Parmandur]

They should lower it to 65% or even 60% if you ask me.

Look at all the bellyaching over the Beastmaster, and 70% already is below the approval rating that gets.

 

[Mistwell]

Healing chant (cantrip)
Action
Evocation
V,S
cleric/bard

Choose any number of ally within 30 ft of you that can hear you. You can divide up to your Spellcasting ability mod in HP between them. given that the ally have less than half its HP but more than 0 HP.

This spell, used out of combat, would always have the entire party at half hit points or better for free. If it had a limit on usage, like it cannot be used on the same target twice in the same hour or something, it would be fine. But unlimited use on the same target means you're reducing the need for all other limited-resource healing in the game by quite a bit. Now the Barbarian who is down 100 hit points only needs to be healed 50 hit points to be full, because your cantrip can heal 50 hit points of damage in around a minute for free out of combat.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

They take the risks by putting them out there: they are smart by not committing to what doesn't work.

Hahahahaha ok so test-marketing stuff via UAs is "taking a risk"? That's not a meaningful risk of any kind, and is really super-insulting to companies and people who do actually take risks.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Because everything outside the PHB is optional
If 4E style canrips are in a Nethir Vale book, a table gets less flack for not using it in FR.

Sure, but the design was abandoned, and as has been pointed out, didn't appear to apply to Druids, which is bizarre, given they already had arguably better offensive options than Clerics. It really looks more like they couldn't think of good attack cantrips for Clerics/Bards more than anything else.

 

[Parmandur]

Hahahahaha ok so test-marketing stuff via UAs is "taking a risk"? That's not a meaningful risk of any kind, and is really super-insulting to companies and people who do actually take risks.

Putting out untested product is more silly than being a risk. Putting out the material to see what people actually want go pay money for is the best way to move the ball forwards in actual products.

 

[Minigiant]

The Druid gets Poison Spray, Produce Flame, Thrown Whip, and even Shillelagh as offensive options. That's FOUR cantrips. Plus, they, can get natural weapons in wildshape. They have options.

Still less attack cantrips options and known than a sorcerer or wizard. Druid is third though. Then Warlock then Bard/Cleric.

Attack Spam options is one of the 5e sorcerer's gimmick.

 

[Olrox17]

Putting out untested product is more silly than being a risk. Putting out the material to see what people actually want go pay money for is the best way to move the ball forwards in actual products.

Designing stuff by committee is pretty much the opposite of risky and brave, it's about as safe and conservative as you can be. It can be a smart strategy, depending on the situation.

I think that WotC's cautious design was highly justified at the beginning of 5e. They came after a very divisive edition, they had to win at least 50% of the fanbase back. They accomplished that, and more.
Now, they're still being very cautious. I believe it might be time for them to start taking some risks, to employ some autocratic design.

Why do I think so? I can only speak for myself (and my group, to an extent). We've been loyal customers of the brand since 3.0. We played and enjoyed 3.5, 4e, Essentials and 5e. I'm really starting to get worried about this game, it's getting really stagnant. I've been losing players, some of them specifically because of 5e's conservative design direction. It's never happened to us before in almost 20 years of playing D&D and supporting WotC. I think more and more people might start feeling this way, if WotC stays on their current course.

 

[Fenris-77]

I mean, the reasons are many and have been expressed pretty frequently.

3PP tends to have a more...3.5 level of balance and cohesion. Even the well regarded stuff isn’t as well balanced or as coherent or as good at doing what it means to do, as the official stuff.

I would disagree. I have rather a lot of 3PP stuff, and some of it is a little like that, but some of it is at least as well balanced as the official books, sometimes moreso. It's not like 5E has done nothing but hit home runs on the balance front. The stuff from Kobold Press, for example, is very much on par with the official releases. Legendary Games, Petersen Games, Marching Modron, EN World, Fat Goblin, a host of indie stuff, there's a lot of quality content out there (and that's not a comprehensive list, just who I could think of quickly that I own pretty solid product from) . Dismissing it all as 'unbalanced' is kind shortsighted to say the least. It's not even hard to find out what's probably good before you buy with the ease of finding reviews online.

 

[Charlaquin]

I would disagree. I have rather a lot of 3PP stuff, and some of it is a little like that, but some of it is at least as well balanced as the official books, sometimes moreso. It's not like 5E has done nothing but hit home runs on the balance front. The stuff from Kobold Press, for example, is very much on par with the official releases. Legendary Games, Petersen Games, Marching Modron, EN World, Fat Goblin, a host of indie stuff, there's a lot of quality content out there (and that's not a comprehensive list, just who I could think of quickly that I own pretty solid product from) . Dismissing it all as 'unbalanced' is kind shortsighted to say the least. It's not even hard to find out what's probably good before you buy with the ease of finding reviews online.

It’s not just about balance though. That is part of the concern, certainly, but not the entirety. I thing consistency is a much bigger problem for most than balance. Consistency of power, consistency of tone, consistency of writing, etc. Sticking to official WoTC published material insures a consistency that 3pp lacks. Another issue is bloat. Opening the 3pp floodgates brings back all the content bloat issues of 3e and 4e.