D&D 5E People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[Weiley31]

Opening the 3pp floodgates brings back all the content bloat issues of 3e and 4e.

Which is already reaching that kind of level really.

 

[Fenris-77]

It’s not just about balance though. That is part of the concern, certainly, but not the entirety. I thing consistency is a much bigger problem for most than balance. Consistency of power, consistency of tone, consistency of writing, etc. Sticking to official WoTC published material insures a consistency that 3pp lacks. Another issue is bloat. Opening the 3pp floodgates brings back all the content bloat issues of 3e and 4e.

I don't see the actual objection here. I purchase 3PP material specifically to match the tone of what I want, and when I'm running the game I'm in complete charge of what gets used at the table. I have no tonal issues, or bloat issues with my rather extensive bookshelf. Both are, IMO, not a thing in this instance unless you let them be. There is no 'opening the floodgates' unless the DM wants to. It's certainly not a reason to cross out literally hundreds of really well-written resources for 5E.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I would disagree. I have rather a lot of 3PP stuff, and some of it is a little like that, but some of it is at least as well balanced as the official books, sometimes moreso. It's not like 5E has done nothing but hit home runs on the balance front. The stuff from Kobold Press, for example, is very much on par with the official releases. Legendary Games, Petersen Games, Marching Modron, EN World, Fat Goblin, a host of indie stuff, there's a lot of quality content out there (and that's not a comprehensive list, just who I could think of quickly that I own pretty solid product from) . Dismissing it all as 'unbalanced' is kind shortsighted to say the least. It's not even hard to find out what's probably good before you buy with the ease of finding reviews online.

Even if I had only mentioned balance, which isn’t the case, I’d still disagree with you. Kobold Press is...decent, at best, at balance.

They’ve gotten better, but especially their early spells and subclass options were...a mess.

I don't see the actual objection here. I purchase 3PP material specifically to match the tone of what I want, and when I'm running the game I'm in complete charge of what gets used at the table. I have no tonal issues, or bloat issues with my rather extensive bookshelf. Both are, IMO, not a thing in this instance unless you let them be. There is no 'opening the floodgates' unless the DM wants to. It's certainly not a reason to cross out literally hundreds of really well-written resources for 5E.

Sure it is. Not for you, and thats

 

[Fenris-77]

They’ve gotten better, but especially their early spells and subclass options were...a mess.

This only gets to be an objection of it's not also true of WotC. Would you say that WotC has run out consistent and balanced subclasses? I certainly wouldn't. You also aren't under any impetus whatsoever to use anything in particular from any book, official or not.

Your half-written second objection is going to be something about not a problem for me but maybe a problem for some? I'm just guessing. If that's it then sure, I guess, but I'm not in charge of people who can't figure out what's useful or not for their own campaign and are afraid to try. There are reviews, there are forums like this one, and the venerable old trial and error method. If you see a need for content X, you can try some options, it's that simple. If you don't want to that's fine, 100% OK, but complaining about lack of options at the same time is silly.

 

[Undrave]

Still less attack cantrips options and known than a sorcerer or wizard. Druid is third though. Then Warlock then Bard/Cleric.

Attack Spam options is one of the 5e sorcerer's gimmick.

I don't care about the Sorcerer is better, I don't care that the Sorcerer has like 10 different at-will options at all times. What I care is that EVERY SINGLE Cleric and Bard has the same damn cantrip! There's no reason they couldn't have given them one other cantrip in the PHB. Heck, Clerics should get Produce Flame!

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

This spell, used out of combat, would always have the entire party at half hit points or better for free. If it had a limit on usage, like it cannot be used on the same target twice in the same hour or something, it would be fine. But unlimited use on the same target means you're reducing the need for all other limited-resource healing in the game by quite a bit. Now the Barbarian who is down 100 hit points only needs to be healed 50 hit points to be full, because your cantrip can heal 50 hit points of damage in around a minute for free out of combat.

You are right. Out of combat turns in my games are 10 minutes segments, so to give that bard 50 HP would require about 1 hour and a half. For ''every table'' use, I'd probably go with ''the ally must have less than its 10 + you spellcasting mod HP (I'd go for ''Con Score'' but its a little more fiddly) and more 0 HP.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

My biggest issue with third-party relates to compatibility. I don't want a psionics system, I want a psionics system that will be used if the Dark Sun book ever happens or that Keith Baker will use for his Sarlona sourcebook. Balance and consistency are things, obviously, but they're not reasons for me wanting certain materials to come from WotC. They don't have such a consistent track on that, what they do have is a higher degree of good-faith and tolerance from the community.

 

[Parmandur]

Designing stuff by committee is pretty much the opposite of risky and brave, it's about as safe and conservative as you can be. It can be a smart strategy, depending on the situation.

I think that WotC's cautious design was highly justified at the beginning of 5e. They came after a very divisive edition, they had to win at least 50% of the fanbase back. They accomplished that, and more.
Now, they're still being very cautious. I believe it might be time for them to start taking some risks, to employ some autocratic design.

Why do I think so? I can only speak for myself (and my group, to an extent). We've been loyal customers of the brand since 3.0. We played and enjoyed 3.5, 4e, Essentials and 5e. I'm really starting to get worried about this game, it's getting really stagnant. I've been losing players, some of them specifically because of 5e's conservative design direction. It's never happened to us before in almost 20 years of playing D&D and supporting WotC. I think more and more people might start feeling this way, if WotC stays on their current course.

They are not designing by committee, the design is being done by individual developers. The "committee" is the publication filter, as it should be.

The Edition is young yet, only in the cusp of six years. They are putting out several books a year. No need to be hasty.

Keep in mind, too, that a large body of the player base wasn't alive or was wearing diaoers when 3E came out, and WotC is focused more and more on that younger crowd.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I don't care about the Sorcerer is better, I don't care that the Sorcerer has like 10 different at-will options at all times. What I care is that EVERY SINGLE Cleric and Bard has the same damn cantrip! There's no reason they couldn't have given them one other cantrip in the PHB. Heck, Clerics should get Produce Flame!

Hell yes.

I hate the response this problem often receive when discussed on forums: ''the clerics, bards and druids are more equipped to survive in melee than wizard, they do not rely as much on cantrip''. That's a big non-sense, they have, at base, medium armors and average weapons. If the cleric was supposed to use only rarely attack, why the hell does half of the subclasses have a feature that gives + mod to damage? Like, the designers knew that some subclasses of cleric were supposed to be more spellcasters than gish, but didn't think to give the cleric more than one offense cantrip?

Same with the PHB bard. They have lousy defenses, few offensive cantrip, no martial weapon training. At low level, they only have a few Inspiration per DAY and it only use a bonus action; what is the bard supposed to with its action during its turn? Spam vicious mockery again and again or plink away with a shortbow?

Same with the druid; the base archetype gain 1 more cantrip as a feature, but druid cantrips are pretty bad as offensive powers and even worse, the druid do not receive any bonus to cantrip damage. What is a land druid supposed to do in battle, using only the PHB? Most of the druid spells use Concentration, the land druid do not really wildshape in combat, its cantrip are lacking and at low level the druid rely much more on them.

Are they unplayable? No. But those classes do not offer much for players desiring to play full support or offensive spellcasters, which should be valid playstyles for those classes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This only gets to be an objection of it's not also true of WotC. Would you say that WotC has run out consistent and balanced subclasses? I certainly wouldn't. You also aren't under any impetus whatsoever to use anything in particular from any book, official or not.

In fact, you’ve no authority whatsoever over what “gets to be an objection”.

Your half-written second objection is going to be something about not a problem for me but maybe a problem for some? I'm just guessing. If that's it then sure, I guess, but I'm not in charge of people who can't figure out what's useful or not for their own campaign and are afraid to try.

This is condescending and elitist trash that you are normally much better than. I don’t know what has pushed you to get into a headspace to act like that, but it’s not great behavior.

That aside, the completely written but glitch-erased rest of that statement was, indeed, that it isn’t a real concern for you, but it is a perfectly valid concern.

Contrary to your insulting assumptions about people who disagree with your preferences, it has nothing to do with capability or being “afraid” of anything.

And yes, wotc is more consistent and balanced than Kobold Press. I don’t ever need any houserules of any kind for RAW 5e. All my homebrew and houserules exist because it was fun to make them, or I was willing to bend the balance of the game slightly to fit in something that made it run more like I wanted, like level 1 bonus feats or an alternate crit rule.

Of KP’s work, I’ve mostly been able to use their races without modification for either balance, adherence to the style and feel of official products, or things like duplicating an existing effect while simply doing less, with no difference in cost. It’s mostly been of use to me as inspiration.