D&D 5E People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the biggest thing that hurts the psionics die is that it doesn't even tell a clear story. It feels like you have very little control of your psionic ability, which is only appropriate for wild talent psionics.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I think the biggest thing that hurts the psionics die is that it doesn't even tell a clear story. It feels like you have very little control of your psionic ability, which is only appropriate for wild talent psionics.

No NO NO. Haven't you read the thread? Anybody who voted against it was too dumb/lazy to learn how it works.

I red it on thu interwebz.

 

[Parmandur]

I think the biggest thing that hurts the psionics die is that it doesn't even tell a clear story. It feels like you have very little control of your psionic ability, which is only appropriate for wild talent psionics.

I kind of liked that? Kind of saw the bad reception coming though...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I kind of liked that? Kind of saw the bad reception coming though...

I'd enjoy it on a wild talent build. I do not think it is appropriate for a Mind Mage, by whatever name, to have less control of their power than the average Wizard.

 

[Minigiant]

I fundamentally disagree here. If anything there seems to be a stronger pull away from having a multitude of subsystems. Games like Legend of Five Rings Fifth Edition, Vampire Fifth Edition, and Wrath and Glory represent a substantial reduction in subsystems compared their antecedents. The Burned Over hack book for Apocalypse World guts subsystems all over the place. The still in development Exalted Essence Edition meant to provide a more approachable alternative to Exalted Third Edition uses a universal charm set. Most games that I am seeing this days have 2-4 major subsystems that characters may plug into at most.

No game represents this trend better than Pathfinder Second Edition. Pathfinder Second Edition has a universal Proficiency System that works the same way for everything - spells, saves, armor, skills, etc. Everything you can do is framed in terms of either the 3 action economy or given a time if it takes longer. With very few exceptions you can either always do something, it is a focus spell, or a spell cast from a spell slot. There is nothing like superiority dice, hit dice, no ki powers, no rage powers / daily rage. Generally if something is similar it works the same way. Dispelling and Removing Curses both use the counteracting system.

It is still a rich game with incredibly different classes. It just gets there by utilizing just a few set subsystems. The Advanced Player's Guide classes play around with these subsystems, but use them in slightly different ways rather than creating new subsystems.

For my money I would rather see psionic classes function off the warlock frame maybe with some at will abilities that played off of Concentration. Mostly I would rather they stand a part based on what they can do rather than how they do it.

I wasn't saying all other games have ever increasing subsystems. I'm saying that other games are cutting down or adding more. D&D, due to it's large fanbase has people who want more, people who want less, and people who want to lock down at the starting number.

D&D's big base is a blessing and a curse.

 

[Charlaquin]

The early playtest rogue in particular caused some of my group to completely bounce off of the playtest.

Huh. I adored the early playtest rogue. Do you recall what about it they disliked?

 

[Charlaquin]

I'd enjoy it on a wild talent build. I do not think it is appropriate for a Mind Mage, by whatever name, to have less control of their power than the average Wizard.

It felt very much like what comes to my mind when I think of a character with psychic powers. Psychic potential is almost universally depicted as unpredictable and difficult to control, and often the psychic character can push their powers beyond their normal limit, but only when the plot needs them to, and there’s always some kind of backslash. The die captured that feeling very well in my opinion. If that’s what a “wild talent build” is, I’d be fine with that being what Psionics are. What even is a “mind mage” anyway and what prevents players from making one with the currently available options?

 

[Hatmatter]

That’s not really what Jeremy said, though. The feedback they got (and have consistently been getting since the initial dndnext playtests) is that the majority of players want to be able to play cool and interesting concepts without having to navigate a bunch of different subsystems, but that a passionate minority really enjoys such subsystems. Accordingly, they try to provide a simple, easy to use baseline with more complex options for the group that enjoys them. They probably won’t discard the psionic die completely because the folks who liked it, while a minority, really liked it. It just won’t be tied to all psionic options moving forward. I would bet we end up seeing one Psionic subclass that uses that mechanic, while others cleave a bit more closely to the baseline 5e mechanics with few bells and whistles.

Yes, this would be what I inferred from watching the video as well. Well said.

 

[Charlaquin]

I didn't watch the video. Do they say that the reason people didn't like it is that they want to learn it, or found it confusing? Or are you assuming that?

No. What they essentially do say is that the feedback consistently indicates that the majority of the player base wants to be able to play characters with psychic powers, without having to learn a new mechanic. It’s not that this particular mechanic bothered them, it’s that they want a version of psionics that just uses the existing mechanics and systems.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It felt very much like what comes to my mind when I think of a character with psychic powers. Psychic potential is almost universally depicted as unpredictable and difficult to control, and often the psychic character can push their powers beyond their normal limit, but only when the plot needs them to, and there’s always some kind of backslash. The die captured that feeling very well in my opinion. If that’s what a “wild talent build” is, I’d be fine with that being what Psionics are. What even is a “mind mage” anyway and what prevents players from making one with the currently available options?

I mean I only need Star Wars to show that "almost universally" is a bit of a stretch.

As for the Mind Mage, I can't take seriously the idea that I need to explain what the concept of a master psionicist is? The jedi master, Proffessor X and Jean Grey of the X-Men (hell, only the young mutants in an origin story with psychic powers fit your description, and the Dark Phoenix Saga Jean Grey, and only while the Phoenix Force was controlling her, and even then it wasn't control of her power, but control of her will, that was the problem), Martian Manhunter...I mean...come on. It's hardly uncommon to have someone with psychic powers be masters of their own power.

And regardless of pop culture, DnD has a long history of psionics (the masters of which have long been called mind mages) who are just as in control as any wizard.

EDIT: as for why you couldnt just do a psionic master with existing options, the answer is the same as it is for the wild talent. You can, but it won't be as satisfying, and the mechanics are spread out over several classes, and you'll be stuck with class features that don't make sense for the concept. Seems pretty straightforward.