Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[Warpiglet-7]

Stan Lee was pretty famously exploited and manipulated by pretty much everyone around him in the last few years of his life. I would be highly suspicious -- to put it mildly -- of anyone who claims they have his consent to use his likeness like this.

I saw something about his later days.

People can be pretty gross.

But for me, dad warpiglet puppet is greenlit by the porcine being himself!

 

[kermit4karate]

Stan Lee was pretty famously exploited and manipulated by pretty much everyone around him in the last few years of his life. I would be highly suspicious -- to put it mildly -- of anyone who claims they have his consent to use his likeness like this.

Poor Stan. I believe he was also unfairly criticized -- nay, vilified -- for things he actually did not do. He was widely accused of stealing credit for creating characters, but anyone paying attention way back in the day knew how influential Lee was to Marvel comics and most of their entire lineup overall. He never, ever claimed to be the only person involved, but it's impossible to deny the magnitude of his influence.

It was right around the time the character attacks on Lee peaked that I noticed a cultural paradigm shift in America toward widespread hardcore ageism.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Poor Stan. I believe he was also unfairly criticized -- nay, vilified -- for things he actually did not do. He was widely accused of stealing credit for creating characters, but anyone paying attention way back in the day knew how influential Lee was to Marvel comics and most of their entire lineup overall. He never, ever claimed to be the only person involved, but it's impossible to deny the magnitude of his influence.

Like all humans, he was multiple things, good and bad. But most of the folks in that era of the Marvel Bullpen are gone now, so it's mostly a lot of fighting over second and third hand sources.

I briefly interacted with him twice for professional reasons and both times, he was exactly what you'd hope Stan Lee to be.

 

[trappedslider]

 

[TiQuinn]

Poor Stan. I believe he was also unfairly criticized -- nay, vilified -- for things he actually did not do. He was widely accused of stealing credit for creating characters, but anyone paying attention way back in the day knew how influential Lee was to Marvel comics and most of their entire lineup overall. He never, ever claimed to be the only person involved, but it's impossible to deny the magnitude of his influence.

It was right around the time the character attacks on Lee peaked that I noticed a cultural paradigm shift in America toward widespread hardcore ageism.

Ooof. Where to start...

He was widely accused of stealing credit for creating characters, but anyone paying attention way back in the day knew how influential Lee was to Marvel comics and most of their entire lineup overall.

Well, first of all, two things can be true at the same time. Lee's talents have been discussed plenty by people who worked closely with him, as well as by outside observers who have commented on Lee's charisma and salesmanship as being integral to the Marvel's success. However, on the first part, when three of the foremost critics of Lee who accused him of stealing credit are Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko and Wally Wood, it's pretty hard to accuse them of not understanding how the comics business worked and where the lines between creator and marketer started and stopped.

Second, no one denies Lee the magnitude of his influence largely because he's virtually always the first one credited throughout most tellings of the Marvel Comics story in the creation of the characters. Not Jack Kirby, who had already been well established in the industry and would take basic outlines, and sometimes one sentence blubs from Lee (sometimes the only writing that Lee contributed to many issues of the comics), and provided the rest of the plot, the dialogue, and the artwork. Similar accounts came from Ditko and Wood who both left Marvel and were vocal with their criticism in the years afterward.

So, in my opinion, no. Not poor Stan. Poor Stan for the people who took advantage of him when he was much older and people were squabbling over his estate and likeness, but not poor Stan for fair criticism of his time running Marvel. He got plenty of accolades throughout his life, and the criticism was quite fair.

 

[gnarlygninja]

As frustrating as the "No Politics" rule here can be, on days like today I appreciate that there is one corner of the internet that won't raise my blood pressure.

 

[The Soloist]

Debate? All I've ever seen are arguments.

Do you want to debate about arguments or do you want to argue about debates?

 

[Mad_Jack]

Has Jack gotten a tetanus shot within the past 10 years?

Oh, Jack is well acquainted with the fine art of injuring himself...

Jack has a very nice scar collection - 109 of them now, and he can tell you the stories behind all but four or five of them (yes, there have been a handful of times Jack didn't even notice until after the fact that he was injured bad enough to leave a permanent scar and still has no idea how it happened)...

Possibly the most unique story is how I once literally saw the back of my own skull after stabbing myself in the back of the head. A "friend" was bouncing a basketball off my bedroom wall when we were in junior high, and I told him to stop. So he threw the ball at my head.
I was cleaning my nails with a small penknife at the time, and put my arm up to block the ball, which hit me in the elbow, causing me to require ten stitches in the back of my head. My mother was examining the wound while I looked on using a pair of mirrors, and I could see it went right through to the bone. My brother was like, "Dude... I can see your brain..."

Oh, and, Public Service Announcement, try to never end up with a terminal case of poison ivy AND a horrible case of the chicken pox at the same time. Thirty-five years later, I still have no hair on my legs.

 

[kermit4karate]

Ooof. Where to start...



Well, first of all, two things can be true at the same time. Lee's talents have been discussed plenty by people who worked closely with him, as well as by outside observers who have commented on Lee's charisma and salesmanship as being integral to the Marvel's success. However, on the first part, when three of the foremost critics of Lee who accused him of stealing credit are Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko and Wally Wood, it's pretty hard to accuse them of not understanding how the comics business worked and where the lines between creator and marketer started and stopped.

Second, no one denies Lee the magnitude of his influence largely because he's virtually always the first one credited throughout most tellings of the Marvel Comics story in the creation of the characters. Not Jack Kirby, who had already been well established in the industry and would take basic outlines, and sometimes one sentence blubs from Lee (sometimes the only writing that Lee contributed to many issues of the comics), and provided the rest of the plot, the dialogue, and the artwork. Similar accounts came from Ditko and Wood who both left Marvel and were vocal with their criticism in the years afterward.

So, in my opinion, no. Not poor Stan. Poor Stan for the people who took advantage of him when he was much older and people were squabbling over his estate and likeness, but not poor Stan for fair criticism of his time running Marvel. He got plenty of accolades throughout his life, and the criticism was quite fair.

Fair enough. I agree he was flawed because who isn't? But I do not agree that the punishment -- the public flogging he still receives when his name comes up (not from you now, but in general someone always comes out to indict him) -- fits his alleged crimes.

Also, thanks for Spider-Man!!!!!