Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

To add to Danny's point: the person in @Ryujin's story was also lying about their credentials. Kinda hard to lecture someone about building trust when the other side is literally arguing in bad faith. Some change must come from within.

But that is one individual. I wouldn't take that and extrapolate that the other side is all arguing in and faith. And it is the internet. I think we have all had run ins with people claiming to have jobs, degrees, expertise and experience they don't have on platforms like facebook. People lie about credentials all the time online (and I am quite sure from a wide variety if sides).
 

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These things are very much, in my experience more about trust than the person's understanding of science. Obviously there is a mix here, and some people simply don't understand the statistics being put forward. But I think in most cases it begins with mistrust of the source of those stats. The issue with myocarditis wasn't that they didn't understand physicians were saying that the risks for it with Covid were worse than from the vaccines, it is that they didn't trust the numbers they were given (and they were also wary because the vaccine was new and were worried about unknown long term effects). Pharmaceutical companies downplay side effects all the time. For example we were told that the new opioids were non-addictive for a while (even though the opposite was true). And they were downplaying myocarditis and pericarditis as well emphasizing they were all mild cases (which might be true but those are still very serious illnesses, I have had pericarditis and isn't a joke). I think if they had treated the myocarditis issue more gravely and less glibly, that would have helped them secure trust in people who were nervous (instead they took a 'don't worry your pretty little head' approach). There has been decades long mistrust created by these companies. Now I am not saying the people who draw these conclusions are right. Like I said I got the vaccine (and I believe it prevented me from having severe COVID when I first caught Covid). But if we just paint these folks as idiots who don't know science, you aren't going to ever convince them. And let's be honest many of us who believe in the vaccines are just as scientifically illiterate.
There is a lot at play and misunderstandings are not just uneducated people vs intelligent paragons of virtue and science.

It’s a human thing. It is exhausting to analyze and question everything. I know I don’t have the energy.

But persuasion and bias and propaganda are huge and in our digital age it’s taking on new power.

My friend who is very bright believes some
Bizarre stuff. Eventually I hear the source material he gets it from, usually after asking where it came from or hearing someone cite and counter it.

After he has that belief, there is a lot of confirmation bias. He twists
Himself knots to justify what he hears. The first to convince people have a huge advantage and it’s often based on few facts.

But to your point, I can cite some concept about stats and it does not matter. The data was manufactured faked etc.

This is a dear friend so it’s not like I look down on him!

Part of setting him up though is manipulation of numbers…he is simply not alone. It takes a lot of effort to question if you do not have a skeptical bent to begin with.
 

For example we were told that the new opioids were non-addictive for a while (even though the opposite was true). And they were downplaying myocarditis and pericarditis as well emphasizing they were all mild cases (which might be true but those are still very serious illnesses, I have had pericarditis and isn't a joke).
During the COVID pandemic, I learned that apparently the medical community has a different definition of "mild" than the general public – at least as applied to COVID itself. When most people hear "mild", they think "low fever, sniffles, stays home from work for a few days." When the medics hear "mild" they think "Does not require hospitalization or intubation."
 

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During the COVID pandemic, I learned that apparently the medical community has a different definition of "mild" than the general public – at least as applied to COVID itself. When most people hear "mild", they think "low fever, sniffles, stays home from work for a few days." When the medics hear "mild" they think "Does not require hospitalization or intubation."
I think with mild pericarditis, it just means it goes away without use of serious medications, surgery, etc. Someone with medical knowledge may be able to weigh in. I am pretty sure the pericarditis I had was mild but am not 100 percent sure because they gave me a megadose of ibuprofen or some other pain reliever (and not sure if that is considered medical intervention if it had anti-inflammatory effects). To be clear, this wasn’t from Covid or the vaccine, it was years before the outbreak and most likely related to a chronic immune issue, an infection or medication I was taking for the immune issue. But the symptoms were quite alarming. the closest I have felt to it in terms of pain and difficulty breathing is when I broke a rib (just to give you a sense of symptom severity). And it is inflammation of the sac around your heart so not something to take lightly. I will say when I got my second shot for the vaccine I felt similar symptoms that went away on their own but no idea if it was pericarditis again or something else (I felt uneasy going to an ER during the pandemic so just rode it out). But it could have been anything. If there hadn’t been a pandemic I would have probably gone to the ER or my primary care doctor
 

During the COVID pandemic, I learned that apparently the medical community has a different definition of "mild" than the general public – at least as applied to COVID itself. When most people hear "mild", they think "low fever, sniffles, stays home from work for a few days." When the medics hear "mild" they think "Does not require hospitalization or intubation."
As with almost everything, context matters. Something that SovCits would do well to consider.
 




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