D&D (2024) Playtest 6 Survey is Open

Remathilis

Legend
Those are all surface level things, to help alleviate issues at some tables. Not structural changes, which they could do if there was a steel of dissatisfaction.
Be aware I'm not actually advocating for the removal of short rest, but the reliance of monks and warlocks on frequent short rests to maintain their power budget with long rest classes. It's a documented issue that they are apparently aware of and have designed around in the past (Tasha's and later racial designs). All I'm asking for is a continuation of that kind of design work.
 

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shadowoflameth

Adventurer
OK, and I agree the Monk needs work. That doesn't people shouldn't give positive feedback on the stuff that they like. @tetrasodium suggested something bothered him so much about one or two other aspects of the playtest that he wasn't planning to let WOTC know anything he actually liked. Which can only make things worse.
Agree and I encourage everyone to give constructive feedback on the things I like and don't. My comment stands however in that the monk is mechanically bad in 5e and in this play test the proposed fixes are so bad that they make me consider not getting the new PHB at all.
 


Right...

So, what happens at level 11 when Paladins get a permant +1/2 spell slot on every single attack they make forever? Does that get balanced out by the monk... in ANY possible way?

And, also, just to be fair and balanced TM, you do understand the fundamental problem with the design, right? Let's assume you are right and every divine smite dealing +2d8 damage is worth the same as the monk getting +1d6+mod (which it isn't, because the monk doesn't get a +6 modifier to their damage), the monk cannot flurry multiple times a turn.

Lets not forget: many damage bonuses, including divine smite, will be only once per turn in 2024. That alone means, that the 2024 monk will be relatively less behind than the 2014 monk.

That said, I also think the monk needs buffs. Weapon masteries combined with unarmed strike seems a good idea.
 

Clint_L

Hero
Lets not forget: many damage bonuses, including divine smite, will be only once per turn in 2024. That alone means, that the 2024 monk will be relatively less behind than the 2014 monk.
No. This has been extensively tested. The monk falls even further behind than 2014, particularly because they don't benefit from mastery, which is a bigger damage buff than most folks realize. The only buff 2024 monk receives right now is +1 to damage on unarmed strikes.

The 2024 monk is doing about 60% of the DPR of a typical melee class at level 11, while spamming flurry of blows. If we want to believe math, anyway.

And it's probably worse because that is without factoring in magical weapons.
 

No. This has been extensively tested. The monk falls even further behind than 2014, particularly because they don't benefit from mastery, which is a bigger damage buff than most folks realize. The only buff 2024 monk receives right now is +1 to damage on unarmed strikes.
Which is why I said that they need mastery on unarmed attacks...

Read to the end.
Don't quote out of context.

To give more context:
Paladins for example now can only smite once per turn, reducing nova capabilities. One thing the 2014 never had a chance to compete with.
 

The 2024 monk is doing about 60% of the DPR of a typical melee class at level 11, while spamming flurry of blows. If we want to believe math, anyway.

And it's probably worse because that is without factoring in magical weapons.

I would like to see the math and the assumptions going on. Maybe but I missed it. Is it worse than 2014? Probably not. Maybe, because you can't spam stunning strike.

I think I remember the DnDnext Playtest, where monk damage went up several d6s as they leveled up. Maybe that would be the right kind of scaling for unarmed strikes...

D6 for starters. D8 At level 5. 2d6 at level 11. 2d8 at level 17. Or so.
 

shadowoflameth

Adventurer
I would like to see the math and the assumptions going on. Maybe but I missed it. Is it worse than 2014? Probably not. Maybe, because you can't spam stunning strike.

I think I remember the DnDnext Playtest, where monk damage went up several d6s as they leveled up. Maybe that would be the right kind of scaling for unarmed strikes...

D6 for starters. D8 At level 5. 2d6 at level 11. 2d8 at level 17. Or
The d6 is better at 1st because d4 is useless on anything but unarmed strikes. Decoupling the Martial arts die from weapons only makes sense if the intent is to encourage the use of Unarmed Strikes. Uncoupling Flurry of Blows from Stunning Strike though has the opposite effect and Nerfs both abilities. Giving the Monk only Simple Weapon Masteries and having no Masteries Unarmed specifically locks the monk out of feat choices and in the play test denies access to Masteries which other martials get. This is worse, not better for the monk, and the d6 doesn't get better until 8th level even though fighters at 1st can get d8 Unarmed Strikes with a fighting style that they get at 1st. The Fighter is already better unarmed than the monk 1st-4th and it's worse in this test.
 

The d6 is better at 1st because d4 is useless on anything but unarmed strikes. Decoupling the Martial arts die from weapons only makes sense if the intent is to encourage the use of Unarmed Strikes. Uncoupling Flurry of Blows from Stunning Strike though has the opposite effect and Nerfs both abilities. Giving the Monk only Simple Weapon Masteries and having no Masteries Unarmed specifically locks the monk out of feat choices and in the play test denies access to Masteries which other martials get. This is worse, not better for the monk, and the d6 doesn't get better until 8th level even though fighters at 1st can get d8 Unarmed Strikes with a fighting style that they get at 1st. The Fighter is already better unarmed than the monk 1st-4th and it's worse in this test.
I bow out here. I can read myself. I can do math myself. I did not challenge anything you wrote there.
 


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