D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[mellored]

Can someone explain why the specific target number for the cap on abilities scores matters?

18, 20, 22..it all seems the same to me. Just an arbitrary cutoff expectation to balance monsters against.

To force people to use more feats.

Note that forum uses are heavily self selected on the side of wanting more complex mechanics.

So consider this post representing a large but quiet group of people who just want a simple +2 Str on their barbarian instead.

(Even though I personally would rather have more interesting feats).

 

[Asisreo]

For me, it matters because the higher the cap, the more it lends to players choosing the ASI Feat over other feats, leading to more uniform character builds.

And as others have mentioned, I love the idea of the cap being 18 until level 19, when it raises to 20, and then the capstone for Barbarians and Monks lets them get to 24 at level 20.

Eh, we could also go the other direction and give higher starting stats to players.

 

[Vaalingrade]

To force people to use more feats.

Note that forum uses are heavily self selected on the side of wanting more complex mechanics.

So consider this post representing a large but quiet group of people who just want a simple +2 Str on their barbarian instead.

(Even though I personally would rather have more interesting feats).

This would be why ASIs should be completely divorced from feats and then vented into space.

 

[mellored]

This would be why ASIs should be completely divorced from feats and then vented into space.

Vent which ones?
The ASI or the feats?

I will point out that most feats are half feats.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Vent which ones?
The ASI or the feats?

I will point out that most feats are half feats.

The ASIs

And maybe the concept of half feats. I don't like making people choose between numbers to fight against Bounded Accuracy and actual interesting character options. And feats could absolutely include simple options that aren't 'more number'.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

by the numbers, there is none better than boosting your primary stat as high as possible.

by capping that number lower, players will chose feats and secondary abilities without the feeling that they are voluntary making their character weaker than it should be..

Until there I had given you 2 thumbs up.

I don't think feats and ASI should be seperate resources. But as long as there is an ASI feat in addition to extra ASI and as long as at least feats are tied to class level, I am actually ok.

Edit: easy fix: all +1 ASI from feats removed. ASI is +1 to a stat. You get +1 ASI in the middle of prof bonus increases. (levels 3,7,11,15,19).

 

[Clint_L]

Until there I had given you 2 thumbs up.

I don't think feats and ASI should be seperate resources. But as long as there is an ASI feat in addition to extra ASI and as long as at least feats are tied to class level, I am actually ok.

Edit: easy fix: all +1 ASI from feats removed. ASI is +1 to a stat. You get +1 ASI in the middle of prof bonus increases. (levels 3,7,11,15,19).

This would be an effective nerf to fighters, though, as they are designed around having access to more feats/ASIs.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This would be an effective nerf to fighters, though, as they are designed around having access to more feats/ASIs.

You can adjust fighter seperately. They would get the same numbers of feats. You can easily give them an extra ASI at the extra feat levels. Same for the rogue. I should have mentioned that.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Moving back to the Monk for a second: does this combo for a level 6+ Shadow Monk work? Shadow Step 60 ft vertically, then do a full Move up the vertical surface, then fall on top of your opponent, using Slow Fall to negate your half of the damage. At 6th level, you can go a max of 105 feet up for +5d6 bludgeoning damage for your opponent. It takes a bit of setup, but you can do a more modest +3d6 version if there’s not a wall or tree handy or if the ceiling‘s lower.

Granted, it has a DC 15 Dex save, but it’s not bad for a Bonus Action that still leaves you with an Action you can use to do 2-3 Attacks (one with Advantage) or Dodge or etc. Also, it gets easier to setup and does more damage once you get Improved Shadow Step and more movement.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

does this combo for a level 6+ Shadow Monk work?

Your vertical movement options will often be limited by a) needing to start and end the teleport in dim light b) only being able to run up walls at lv9.

But, if you weren't going to do more than one punch with your bonus action anyway, a DC15 Dex save to maybe deal (half of) 6d6 dmg + making them prone seems good, yes. It's situational (and not reliable against all targets), and you are exposing yourself (because Slow Fall costs you your reaction so no Deflect Attacks), but the true limiting factor is that you need to make sure the GM will be using the Falling Onto Another Creature rule and won't be a dick about arguing what the Slow Fall does and won't rule that intentionally falling onto someone on your own turn still uses up your movement.

I like it as a finisher concept, but it's so easy for GM to negate even while agreeing to all of the above, that I wouldn't make myself annoying with it (use high-Dex monsters, monsters immune to falling damage, fighting areas just happen to be well-lit, fighting areas just happen to have low ceilings, focus-fire you the moment your reaction goes away).