D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[Horwath]

This would be why ASIs should be completely divorced from feats and then vented into space.

I would also agree that ASIs are not needed at later level at all.
Raise point buy pool/array a little and that is what you have.
only way to raise abilities is through high level magic items.

I.E: Magic item sets certain ability to 16 or gives it +2, whatever is higher.


Default array without any ASIs(both starting and later):
18,16,14,14,12,10

point buy:

6: -2pts
8: -1pt
10: 0pts
12: 1pt
14: 2pts
16: 4pts
18: 7pts

pool:
14 pts

 

[Vikingkingq]

I like it as a finisher concept, but it's so easy for GM to negate even while agreeing to all of the above, that I wouldn't make myself annoying with it (use high-Dex monsters, monsters immune to falling damage, fighting areas just happen to be well-lit, fighting areas just happen to have low ceilings, focus-fire you the moment your reaction goes away).

Yeah, I wasn’t thinking of doing this every time, but finishing off an enemy with an epic diving elbow is just a cool moment.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Thinking more on the alternatives to Stun with a possible versatile Stunning Strike replacement, one of the current things to think about is that stun is one of the best conditions to inflict on an opponent. So other conditions or effects I feel should be roughly equivalent to that, which might be hard to do. The Monk is also inherently more supernatural than other base classes such as Fighter, Barbarian or Rogue (though obviously there's many Fighter subclasses that are more magical than a Warrior of the Hand). So the Monk can have something that's more out there in terms of what they can do.

 

[Kurotowa]

Your vertical movement options will often be limited by a) needing to start and end the teleport in dim light b) only being able to run up walls at lv9.

The dim light isn't too bad, since you could just Bonus Action Dash for 90ft. Nearly as good and doesn't cost a DP or require special lighting. But more importantly, this trick requires your target to be standing next to a conveniently placed 100ft tall vertical surface. That is a very highly specialized circumstantial terrain gimmick. So specialized I'm not sure I would bother planning around it specifically.

Also, is the damage from the monster dive kick really better than just spending a DP to Flurry of Blows? Style points, sure, but if you're 9th Level for wall running, that's just one step away from 10th Level and three attacks from Flurry. Then at 11th Level your Unarmed Strike goes up to 1d10. And Crawford has said that magic items to enhance your Unarmed Strike are going to be in the core books.

So all in all, cute idea, but the numbers aren't that impressive and I don't expect the circumstances to allow for it more than once or twice in an entire campaign.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Hey, @Snarf Zagyg - I know that you like Monks in general (in contrast to your distaste for the B-word) and IIRC were very critical of the last playtest's version. What do you think of this one? (And if you posted on this thread and I missed it, can you point me to it?)

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I am excited to see an Open Hand monk striking 5 times in a round. Damn, that guy could grapple, shove prone, attack (with advantage), attack (with advantage), attack (with advantage), and then drag you through some spellcasters damage area like spikes or the new conjure spells or whatever. Oh and now your foe, if they're still alive, can only attack you and with disadvantage from being prone with a zero speed.

That actually sounds really fun to me!

 

[mellored]

Thinking more on the alternatives to Stun with a possible versatile Stunning Strike replacement,

IMO, make it more costly, but have Daze on a save.

I.e.

Stunning Stike
As an action, you can spend 2 DP and a creature within reach makes a fortitude savings throw. If they fail, they are Stuned, if they succeed, they are Dazed. This last until the end of your next turn.
The creature is then immune to Stunning Strike for 24 hours.

 

[Vikingkingq]

The dim light isn't too bad, since you could just Bonus Action Dash for 90ft. Nearly as good and doesn't cost a DP or require special lighting. But more importantly, this trick requires your target standing to be next to a conveniently placed 100ft tall vertical surface. That is a very highly specialized circumstantial terrain gimmick. So specialized I'm not sure I would bother planning around it specifically.

Well, you can do the 60 ft version without the vertical surface, and Bonus Action Dash doesn't come with damage.

Also, is the damage from the monster dive kick really better than just spending a DP to Flurry of Blows? Style points, sure, but if you're 9th Level for wall running, that's just one step away from 10th Level and three attacks from Flurry. Then at 11th Level your Unarmed Strike goes up to 1d10. And Crawford has said that magic items to enhance your Unarmed Strike are going to be in the core books.

So all in all, cute idea, but the numbers aren't that impressive and I don't expect the circumstances to allow for it more than once or twice in an entire campaign.

I think the numbers are a bit better than you're suggesting. At 6th level, the fall damage from just teleporting is equivalent to a bit more than one Unarmed Strike, and because your next attack has Advantage, you're going to be connecting more often and doing more damage - especially if you can start chaining Advantage with Vex. So it's better than just using a regular Bonus Action Unarmed Strike.

At 9th level, the fall damage increases from 3d6 to 5d6 if you can get the air, so you're getting 40% more bang for your buck without having to spend any additional resources. At 10th level, you're giving up two attacks if you have DP, but you're not giving up anything if you're out of DP, and you're getting +d3 fall damage from your movement increasing.

So it's definitely a sometimes food rather than an anytime snack, but that's a lot of levels where it's a perfectly cromulent strategy for when you run out of DP.

 

[Vikingkingq]

IMO, make it more costly, but have Daze on a save.

I.e.

Stunning Stike
As an action, you can spend 2 DP and a creature within reach makes a fortitude savings throw. If they fail, they are Stuned, if they succeed, they are Dazed. This last until the end of your next turn.
The creature is then immune to Stunning Strike for 24 hours.

I don't think they'll go with Dazed on a save, because the change from Legendary Actions to multiple Reactions in monster design makes denial of Reaction and Bonus Action significantly more powerful. However, I think a weaker version of Dazed that just said you can either Move or take an Action but not both might be ok. I'm not sure whether that's worth an Unarmed Strike's worth of damage, tho.

Also, I don't think they'll go with "until the end of your next turn," because they don't like Stunlocking.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Ok. Can see how there is a concern related to the amount of mechanical potence tied to ASIs.. and the proportion of decision points that include ASIs as the most potent relevant option.

Edit: though I'm not sure that complaining about the number itself really captures that concern.

Yeah, especially since you could just tie getting an ASI to every feat, so that you aren't actually picking between them.