D&D (2024) Playtest: Is the Human Terrible?

[Maxperson]

When using the UA, its specific overrides the PH.

Okay. Quote me in the UA where it says every feat has a level, because I just read it and it doesn't say it at all. All it says is here is a list of 1st level feats.

 

[Yaarel]

@Maxperson

"
FEATS
This section offers a collection of 1st-level Feats, which are special features not tied to a single Class. At 1st level, your character gains a Feat from the character’s Background.

PARTS OF A FEAT
The description of a Feat contains the following parts, which are presented after the Feat’s name:

Level. Each Feat has a level. To take a Feat, your level must equal or exceed the Feat’s level.

"

 

[Maxperson]

Where is there a level 0 in the Players Handbook?

Then they have no level at all, since I can give them to NPCs with no level. You still have the problem that the UA does not specifically give all feats level 1 or reference any feats other than those in the UA, though, so it doesn't matter. Since the UA does not specifically assign all feats a level, the 2014 feats do not have one.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

It is weaker. He's objectively better off playing an original variant human than a compatible human.

Vuman :

• Stat increase made irrelevant by the background ASIs
• Size M
• Speed 30 ft
• 2 languages
• 1 skill
• 1 feat of your choice

Cuman :

• Size M or S
• Speed 30 ft
• Inspiration after a long rest
• 1 skill
• 1 feat from the reduced/lower powered "1st level feat" list.

Unless you want to be S, you're basically trading 2 languages and the restricting the choice on your initial feat for advantage on a roll once a day.

I wouldn't say it's "awful" or "terrible" but it's clearly inferior. I'd also expect this inferiority to be compounded by the fact that an unrestricted feat on top of a 1st level feat coming from background opens up combos that aren't possible with two 1st level feat.

You are not accounting for the inspiration that get after a long rest. That is worth quite a lot IME.

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson

"
FEATS
This section offers a collection of 1st-level Feats, which are special features not tied to a single Class. At 1st level, your character gains a Feat from the character’s Background.

PARTS OF A FEAT
The description of a Feat contains the following parts, which are presented after the Feat’s name:

Level. Each Feat has a level. To take a Feat, your level must equal or exceed the Feat’s level.

"

Context my friend. Your quote just defeated your own argument handily.

"This section offers a collection of 1st-level Feats"

Next section talking about the parts of the feats in that section.

"Each Feat has a level" directly in the context of the feats in that section.

Additionally the specific rule is "The description of a Feat contains the following parts, which are presented after the Feat’s name:", so any feat that fails to have that written after its name is a feat without a level. At no point are those words directed outside of the UA section.

Your argument falls apart on multiple fronts. The UA human cannot take 2014 feats, with the exception of Skilled.

 

[Maxperson]

You are not accounting for the inspiration that get after a long rest. That is worth quite a lot IME.

If the myriad of ways to get advantage cease to exist, sure. Otherwise it's just a drop in the bucket of advantage. Helpful yes, but not very strong.

 

[Yaarel]

Context my friend. Your quote just defeated your own argument handily.

"This section offers a collection of 1st-level Feats"

Next section talking about the parts of the feats in that section.

"Each Feat has a level" directly in the context of the feats in that section.

Additionally the specific rule is "The description of a Feat contains the following parts, which are presented after the Feat’s name:", so any feat that fails to have that written after its name is a feat without a level.

Your argument falls apart on multiple fronts. The UA human cannot take 2014 feats, with the exception of Skilled.

To the contrary. It mentions 1st level feats.

Then explains what any feat is: Name, Level, Prerequisite, Repeatable, and Description.

The Players Handbook feats also have a level, and some specify a prereq and if it is repeatable.

The feat taxonomy is for any feat.

The section then goes on to list the ones that are part of backgrounds.

Obviously, this description of a feat taxonomy applies to any feat, even ones that are not part of a background.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

If the myriad of ways to get advantage cease to exist, sure. Otherwise it's just a drop in the bucket of advantage. Helpful yes, but not very strong.

Obviously it depends on your group. Advantage doesn’t come up all that often for our group and having reliably is i nice thing I’m trying to convince our DM to allow as most us play humans

And of course you are comparing that to 2 languages, which never really is a thing for our group

 

[Maxperson]

Obviously, this description of a feat applies to any feat, even ones that are not part of a background.

No. You don't get to assume stuff and then claim it specifically says it. For specific to beat general, you need "1st level applies to the feats in the 2014 PHB." Specific beats general requires specific language. This is why Crawford ruled that See Invisibility doesn't stop the formerly invisible creature from getting advantage on attacks. The spell doesn't specifically say they don't.

 

[Yaarel]

No. You don't get to assume stuff and then claim it specifically says it. For specific to beat general, you need "1st level applies to the feats in the 2014 PHB." Specific beats general requires specific language. This is why Crawford ruled that See Invisibility doesn't stop the formerly invisible creature from getting advantage on attacks. The spell doesn't specifically say they don't.

The taxonomy describes any "feat". Any feat. Not just background feats.