Playtest: Warlock Updates

[Dannyalcatraz]

That's out of the box thinking!

 

[MrAlgothi]

I like the play test change quite a bit, adds a bit more bite into many powers that were considered poor choices before and really cleaned up some of the weird language. I also agree that they should change Dire Radiance to Cha or Con, it will give Charisma based Starlocks a bit more at-will flexibility.

After reading a bit on the WOTC forums, I have to say I think that while Eldritch Blast is a solid power, it needs a bit of something to spice it up and make it feel like its a power that belongs to a Mobile Striker. Id also love for it to have a mechanical tie in with either Shadow Walk or Prime shot. Perhaps something like the below...

Special: If you have concealment from your Shadow Walk feature, shift one square before the attack.
Or..
Special: If you benefit from your Prime Shot feature for this attack and hit, deal INT damage to one enemy adjacent to the target.

Something like that would certainly make me feel better about a power I am forced to take.

 

[Ryujin]

That's out of the box thinking!

Not that far out of the box. It works for the Prescient Bard rather well, which I think is the only Bard build that can't really get by with just leather or hide.

 

[frogged]

Does anyone else think that when they wrote this:

Being told that your power does slightly more or less damage is shrug-worthy compared to being told that your power does something completely different. We’re particularly interested in gleaning some feedback on this degree of change. Also, consider if your opinion is different depending on the popularity of the power in question, or how iconic it might be.

What they actually said was: *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* Twin Strike

 

[Gorgoroth]

man

if they thought the cleric turn undead threads were bad, there will be riots if they make Twin Strike, say, "Dual Strike" pt 2.

I'd rather the flat out go rid of frost cheese or called shot (although that power is great, because it's the only way to get a damage boost to both my melee AND my ranged attacks, instead of having to take weapon focus twice)

 

[Vael]

It's really only Dire Radiance that needs the CON/CHA option. There are enough encounter powers on both sides now that Star Pact warlocks aren't starved for choice. I'm not against giving some encounter attacks the option, and I'm in favour of giving some Star Pact Paragon Paths dual-options, but it's Dire Radiance that really needs it, IMO.

This, to me, seems the most logical change. Other changes might invalidate previous builds, or just cause confusion. It's simplest.

 

[bganon]

Just to join the overwhelming chorus: Yes, PLEASE, make Dire Radiance use Con or Cha. If they're already changing so many powers, I don't see why they didn't make this one.

I think it's really by far the largest flaw left. I don't think Starlocks need an AC boost, because IMO they should all have Int secondary. Cha+Con "dual-primary" builds are almost always a trap and should be discouraged.

 

[mneme]

Just to join the overwhelming chorus: Yes, PLEASE, make Dire Radiance use Con or Cha. If they're already changing so many powers, I don't see why they didn't make this one.

I agree, of course, but...

I think it's really by far the largest flaw left. I don't think Starlocks need an AC boost, because IMO they should all have Int secondary. Cha+Con "dual-primary" builds are almost always a trap and should be discouraged.

I see no reason why not to enable a dual primary starlock (and not make it a trap). Just give starlocks the option to use Con instead of Int for AC (or maybe just "the lower of their Con and Charisma bonuses") and let players choose between Con/Int, Cha/Int and Con/Cha. There's nothing trappish about taking a few attacks on a stat that's one point lower than your primary stat, while still having a decent AC and two good defenses.

 

[Obryn]

I suggested Chain proficiency for Warlocks in my email, along with Dire Radiance fixes and increased Eyebite damage. We'll see. Still not as good as being able to throw your stats into Hide and High Int, but it's a start.

-O

 

[bganon]

I agree, of course, but... I see no reason why not to enable a dual primary starlock (and not make it a trap). Just give starlocks the option to use Con instead of Int for AC (or maybe just "the lower of their Con and Charisma bonuses") and let players choose between Con/Int, Cha/Int and Con/Cha. There's nothing trappish about taking a few attacks on a stat that's one point lower than your primary stat, while still having a decent AC and two good defenses.

I guess I see it this way:

I see this update as a chance to fix things that don't work as intended. But I don't think the Cha/Con starlock was ever even intended to be a viable build. The two OWarlock builds are Cha/Int or Con/Int, period. Starlocks were supposed to choose one of those and stick with it. It's implicit in the class writeup even if the V-class power structure confused the issue.

Further, I don't think granting Chainmail or Con-mod to AC is even enough to put a Cha/Con starlock on equal footing with the other builds. Even with the AC fix, they're still trading away most of the rider benefits (which are Int-based) for power selection flexibility. But with the current glut of powers, that's hardly a benefit at all. I think it'd still be a trap build (albeit a less painful one). I'd rather WOTC spend effort making the original Warlock builds not suck, rather than trying to wrestle some never-intended Starlock variant into half-viability. I think a Cha/Con warlock would be much better served by an entirely new sub-class or build, if that's a direction they really want to go.