D&D 5E [Poll] Are any of the subclasses underpowered?

[Paul Farquhar]

Best fix for champion would be +1 HP/level.
That gives a nice boost and keeps the subclass in it's simplistic style.

That's a nice idea, but I don't think the game really calls for that level of fine tuning. The differenced between an "optimised" and unoptimized" character is far bigger than any class/subclass differences. So long as it's fun to play it doesn't matter if X is a bit weaker than Y (where Y is a paladin).

 

[Krachek]

I agree completely, but, then again, this isn't a thread about what's fun to play, which I find often isn't the same at all as what's the most optimal. Viewing the game through the lens of optimization tends to focus the conversation on combat, both through DPR, nova damage, and battlefield control. Actual games of D&D aren't played in a whiteroom, and aren't solely focused on combat though. Depending on the campaign, and the amount of and importance placed on non-combat encounters of various sort really change the notion of both power and player enjoyment.

I'm assuming that this thread indexes more the mechanical and optimized element of 'power', as a yardstick with which to compare subclasses.

A agree to both of you.
I have note that the concerns of some posters about optimal characters are not equally share with the Dev team.
We won’t have more errata to level precisely all classes.
The UA on variant classes is the best hope on this subject.
Rather to do poll it would be more useful to create a coop thread to share home brew fixes to level classes and subclasses,

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

If the assassin is doing it's job properly, it slips in, drops the target with one attack, then slips out again. If it ever comes down to "roll for initiative" the assassin has messed up.

Now, that might make it not a particularly useful addition to a party of dungeoneers, but it does what it is designed to do.

I get what you are saying, but that's not how the class works sadly. I would be cool though. You cant ''drop'' a target before the initiative roll because of how surprises work: you have to have the jump on the enemy without him having spotted any of your companion, then win initiative. If you do, you get a crit against it. But with the amount of hp creatures have in 5e, its rather hard to drop a worthy target in one shot.

And the rules and cost of poisons are prohibitive.

What I'd give them:
-Gain disguise and poisoner kit: add proficiency to the DC to resist your poison. Can craft 1 poison from a small list with 1 hour of downtime. More powerful poison are available at higher level.

- Death attack: if when you deal your sneak attack to a creature you had advantage against, you can use your bonus action to force it to make a Con save or be stunned until the end of its next turn.

- Assasinate: Attacks against a surprised creature force a Con save, on a failed it dies.

 

[Fenris-77]

The Assassin really shines in a party that does Stealth well because then there isn't the same need to go solo. In a party full of clanking fighter types who couldn't sneak around in a room padded with cotton the Assassin struggles a lot.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I get what you are saying, but that's not how the class works sadly. I would be cool though. You cant ''drop'' a target before the initiative roll because of how surprises work: you have to have the jump on the enemy without him having spotted any of your companion, then win initiative.

Assassins operate alone, and need to react quickly.

If you do, you get a crit against it. But with the amount of hp creatures have in 5e, its rather hard to drop a worthy target in one shot.

Assassins are meant to kill kings, not dragons.

And the rules and cost of poisons are prohibitive.

The employer should cover the cost of expenses.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The Assassin really shines in a party that does Stealth well because then there isn't the same need to go solo. In a party full of clanking fighter types who couldn't sneak around in a room padded with cotton the Assassin struggles a lot.

Currently retraining my lvl 4 assassin to a thief in a friend's campaign because its a party of new 6 new players + me, all of them playing Leeroy Jenkins variants

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Assassins operate alone, and need to react quickly.



Assassins are meant to kill kings, not dragons.



The employer should cover the cost of expenses.

All that's all well and good, but are those things happening regularly (lets say once per game) in any games?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

All that's all well and good, but are those things happening regularly (lets say once per game) in any games?

The assassin does what it's name says it does.

It doesn't offer any guarantees that the assassin's skills will be useful for a typical adventuring party.

 

[DEFCON 1]

What I'd give them:
-Gain disguise and poisoner kit: add proficiency to the DC to resist your poison. Can craft 1 poison from a small list with 1 hour of downtime. More powerful poison are available at higher level.

- Death attack: if when you deal your sneak attack to a creature you had advantage against, you can use your bonus action to force it to make a Con save or be stunned until the end of its next turn.

- Assasinate: Attacks against a surprised creature force a Con save, on a failed it dies.

Then feel free! If you have an Assassin player in a group you are running, then you are well within your rights to give them the abilities you list here.

But if you think for even a second that WotC is going to make any subclass that allows a PC to instantly kill a creature regardless of their hit point total using nothing more than an attack with Surprise and a failed CON save... you're insane. They just designed an entire edition around the removal of Save Or Die abilities... they aren't going to put one back in just for the Rogue. Especially a Rogue at 3rd level (the level they get Assassinate.)

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Then feel free! If you have an Assassin player in a group you are running, then you are well within your rights to give them the abilities you list here.

But if you think for even a second that WotC is going to make any subclass that allows a PC to instantly kill a creature regardless of their hit point total using nothing more than an attack with Surprise and a failed CON save... you're insane. They just designed an entire edition around the removal of Save Or Die abilities... they aren't going to put one back in just for the Rogue. Especially a Rogue at 3rd level (the level they get Assassinate.)

Not saying at level 3, I mean a real ''assassinate'' feature as capstone feature...like, I dont know...the Open Hand monk? Who can do it for 3 ki from its 20 ki pools per short rest, and can to hit at any moment while on the same plane after the initial hit for a number of days.
EDIT: Oh, and they can decide to use this feature when they hit, no need to gamble the points in advance.

I must really be insane.