D&D 5E Potent Cantrip is still dumb, btw
doctorhook
Legend
I've only got my updated Basic rules package with me at the moment, so I haven't been able to check out any of the 5Advanced cantrips. You must be referring to the fact that Potent Cantrip gives half damage from cantrips even when the target successfully saves and the fact that all of the evocation cantrips I looked at (fire bolt, ray of frost, and shocking grasp) require an attack roll rather than a saving throw.
I'd say just reword Potent Cantrip to apply to successful saves and missed attack rolls.
I'd say just reword Potent Cantrip to apply to successful saves and missed attack rolls.
Well the thing is in the playtest that is how Potent Cantrip worked, although it might have specified Evocation Cantrips back then. Also back then Great Weapon Fighting style did damage on a miss. Both were changed because people complained about Great Weapon Fighting style giving Fighters, and Paladins and Rangers, the ability to deal damage on a miss.
So both features were changed and Mearls has said it was because dealing damage on a miss with Potent Cantrip was "too confusing" for people in the playtest.
When Basic came out there was a bit of comment, that led to Mearls tweet on the subject, because yes Potent Cantrip did nothing in Basic. Since then they added some more cantrips from the PHB to basic, of course none of the Save based cantrips that Potent Cantrip can work on in the updated Basic or the PHB are Evocation. Which certainly feels weird that an Evocation class feature cannot work with Evocation class spells.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
IMO, a lot of those conjuration spells should probably be evocation spells anyway.
Because if you asked me what the difference was between "I conjure a ball of acid and throw it at my foes!" and "I evoke a ball of fire and throw it at my foes!", I would be all lol idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The distinction seems to be the difference between making an active attack with the energy from the spell, and just making the material appear and boning anyone in the radius of destruction, but daaaang, that's a fine distinction in a lot of these situations.
Because if you asked me what the difference was between "I conjure a ball of acid and throw it at my foes!" and "I evoke a ball of fire and throw it at my foes!", I would be all lol idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The distinction seems to be the difference between making an active attack with the energy from the spell, and just making the material appear and boning anyone in the radius of destruction, but daaaang, that's a fine distinction in a lot of these situations.
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QFT.
Brings to mind the 3e era of adding "conjuration" versions of major evocation spells that conveniently avoided spell resistance. I believe they were various "orb" spells?
doctorhook
Legend
Ah yes, the ol' "I don't like golems and want my players to be able to destroy them with impunity" trick.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
PS: Somone displeased with "ImPotent Cantrip" might want to take a look at these. Not tested, but I think reasonable!
I get that they're trying to be inclusive, but really, I wish the schools of magic had some more thought into making them truly distinctive.
If conjuration is supposed to be the "make things & critters" school, don't give them spells like acid splash, because that does not do that thing that the school is about. If that spell is about dealing damage, and if evocation is supposed to be the "blow up d00ds" school, make the blow-up-d00ds spells, like this one, evocation.
It's not like a conjurer couldn't take it -- there's no prohibited schools in 5e.
I get that they're trying to be inclusive, but really, I wish the schools of magic had some more thought into making them truly distinctive.
If conjuration is supposed to be the "make things & critters" school, don't give them spells like acid splash, because that does not do that thing that the school is about. If that spell is about dealing damage, and if evocation is supposed to be the "blow up d00ds" school, make the blow-up-d00ds spells, like this one, evocation.
It's not like a conjurer couldn't take it -- there's no prohibited schools in 5e.
zoroaster100
First Post
Something I noticed today. One of the NPCs in Hoard of the Dragon Queen has this ability but it works to do half damage when the target makes its save for a cantrip OR when you miss with the contrip.
doctorhook
Legend
I fully agree. One of the promises of 4E (academics can debate whether it was delivered upon) that I most liked was that each area of magic would feel distinct: blasting was for evokers; summoning and teleportation was for conjurers; mind-reading was a mostly for psions.
Side note: Diviners and enchanters have fairly distinct roles, but knowledge clerics, some warlocks, and (presumably) psions each sorta walk all over the distinction. Is reading thoughts a divination power or an enchantment? How about controlling thoughts with spells? It's a nebulous area.
Sword of Spirit
Legend
Over on the WotC forums people came to some interesting conclusions. The main one is that not having potent cantrip apply to evocation cantrips is probably intentional. The reason for this is that empowered evocation stacked with potent cantrip would make non-evocation cantrips extremely inferior choices. As it is now, some people argue that empowered evocation with evocation cantrips still outclasses potent cantrip on acid splash (and it uncontestably does on poison spray). Acid splash with potent cantrip is useful if you are attacking two targets. It wouldn't even be worth taking if it didn't get something that evocations don't.
Now, I suppose someone could argue that it is only the evoker subclass that this would be true of. For another wizard, acid splash is just as good of a choice if you plan to be routinely targeting multiple creatures.
Remember, you only get a limited number of cantrips, and every choice matters. They want to make sure there is a reason to pick something like acid splash.
Now, I suppose someone could argue that it is only the evoker subclass that this would be true of. For another wizard, acid splash is just as good of a choice if you plan to be routinely targeting multiple creatures.
Remember, you only get a limited number of cantrips, and every choice matters. They want to make sure there is a reason to pick something like acid splash.
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