Artoomis
First Post
I though it might be handy to make up a list of rules that have problems - that is, those that we here cannot agree on how they work.
Perhaps, if you have an interest, you will add to this list. These would be issues that a DM should keep handy, especially for a new game, so that everyone knows what to expect in a particular game, and, as a player, you know what questions to ask when going to a new game.
The list, in no particular order (I will edit it later to add in new items.):
1. Buckler w/two handed weapon. (What happens when you do this?)
2. Mind Blank spell and what it blocks. (True Strike? Invisibility?)
3. Advancement of a paladin's mount. (As an animal or Magical Beast? Any skill points or feats?)
4. Monk's use of a shield. (Can you or can you not use one without losing Wis bonus to AC, etc.?)
5. Number and type of slots for non-humanoid creature magical items (There is a possible conflict between T&B familiar magical items rules and MotW animal magical item rules.)
6. Haste and the 5-foot step. (Can you get a second 5-foot step with Haste?)
7. How does the Fly Spell work when underwater? (Full speed, reduced speed, ot not at all?)
8. What form does the shield spell take - and how do you determine half the battlefield? (Use a line in front of the character or use half the squares around the character?)
9. What movement is affected by Expeditious Retreat? (Everything derived from based speed - walk, run, swim, etc.; movement on land only - walk, charge, run, etc.; all forms of movement - fly, etc.?)
10. Threatening an area while unarmed. (Do you or don't you?)
11. Are gauntlets part of armor? (Can monks wear them without penalty?)
12. How does a Barbarian's DR work? (Does a Barbarian bypass another Barbarian's DR?)
13. Does the Bless Weapon spell (Pal 1) bypass any amount of DR on an evil creature? (You could read it as either: Negates all DR on any evil creature or Negates DR as if it was a +1 weapon but only against evil creatures.)
14. Can you really use the Violent Thrust option of the TeleKinessis spell to throw hundreds of weapons? (Normal examples are Shuriken or Daggers. As I recall, doing it with daggers would result in 250 attacks at d4 damage each.)
15. Do Touch Attacks = weapons for all purposes? (One example - can you Coup de grace with a Touch Attack?)
16. Timestop. (What can and can't be done - what will work and what won't? If hasted, do you get additional partial actions?)
17. Imprved Unarmed Attack and Monk's Unarmed Attacks. (Are they weapons or not? More accurately, when exactly do they counts as weapons and wehn do they not? Can you Coup de Grace with an Improved Unarmed Attack?)
18. Can you use a "non-trip" weapon to initiate a trip attack?
19. Paladin's Mount/Blackguurd's Servnae and Familiars Natural AC Improvement. (Do all these work the same way? Does the Nat AC actually get better, or is the class bonus considered like a Nat Ac bonus that does not stack?)
20. For an Empowered spell like Ray of Enfeeblement is the equation (1d6)*1.5+2/CL or is it (1d6+2/CL)*1.5?
21. If you use Empower twice, do you have to apply each Empower separately and round at each step? (For example if you cast a Double Empowered Cat's Grace and roll a result of 5, is the final value 10 (5 + 2.5 + 2.5) or 9 (5 + 2 + 2).
22. If you Empower a spell like Shocking Grasp or Cure Light Wounds, do you multiple just the die value by 1.5 or the total (d8 + caster level) by 1.5?
23. Do tiny creatures get an AoO on creatures that pass through their square? (Their reach is 0')
24. Does Two-Weapon Fighting work with thrown melee weapons?
25. Do you get an AoO if you took Total Defense?
26. Does burst damage replace or stack?
27. Can you cleave off a mirror image?
28. Combat Reflexes - one AoO per opponent or per opportunity?
29. Readymongering: 5' steps? L-shaped runs and charges?
30. Boccob's Blessed Book and "freely." (What does "freely" mean, exactly?)
31. How does Extend Spell with spells that have effects that vary from round to round? (Like Heat Metal)
And, as a bonus, here's few items that may be clear in the rules but many folks think should be changed, perhaps:
Claws of the Vampire and how much it heals.
Speed Armor
Harm
Bladed Gauntlets' crit being 19-20x2.
+1 HD => +1 ECL
I'm not really in favor of including these items since I think the list might be too hard to define and get too long, but I included it for Spikey
P.S. Spikey - I'm looking for items for which reasonable minds may disagree on what the rules say.
It would probably be useful to summarize the main points on each side at some point, but I'd like to get the list first. Then we could make up a handy little list for one to have that would state the major disputed rule, brief arguments on both sides, and Skip's and other designers' opinions. In a way, we would be producing a list of issues for 4th edition
Perhaps if we can really get a good list together we could post it as a *.pdf document someplace. I think it has potential.
I am considering the final form that this list will take.
What do you guys thinks of this:
The question.
The issue(s).
What the rules do and don't say.
My Advice (Hey, when you put in the work, you get to g\be a little self-indulgent) This is my advice on the "best" ruling to make - based on rules, sommon sense, and what seems to me to be the "best" ruling.
Sage Advice.
Other D&D Designers Statement of Original Intent.
I intend for each question to be formatted in the same way. I hope to gather up Sage and other game diesigners' input (Monte, etc.) and then bundle it all up in a free PDF that we get posted on several sites as a reference for DMs and Players.
Perhaps, if you have an interest, you will add to this list. These would be issues that a DM should keep handy, especially for a new game, so that everyone knows what to expect in a particular game, and, as a player, you know what questions to ask when going to a new game.
The list, in no particular order (I will edit it later to add in new items.):
1. Buckler w/two handed weapon. (What happens when you do this?)
2. Mind Blank spell and what it blocks. (True Strike? Invisibility?)
3. Advancement of a paladin's mount. (As an animal or Magical Beast? Any skill points or feats?)
4. Monk's use of a shield. (Can you or can you not use one without losing Wis bonus to AC, etc.?)
5. Number and type of slots for non-humanoid creature magical items (There is a possible conflict between T&B familiar magical items rules and MotW animal magical item rules.)
6. Haste and the 5-foot step. (Can you get a second 5-foot step with Haste?)
7. How does the Fly Spell work when underwater? (Full speed, reduced speed, ot not at all?)
8. What form does the shield spell take - and how do you determine half the battlefield? (Use a line in front of the character or use half the squares around the character?)
9. What movement is affected by Expeditious Retreat? (Everything derived from based speed - walk, run, swim, etc.; movement on land only - walk, charge, run, etc.; all forms of movement - fly, etc.?)
10. Threatening an area while unarmed. (Do you or don't you?)
11. Are gauntlets part of armor? (Can monks wear them without penalty?)
12. How does a Barbarian's DR work? (Does a Barbarian bypass another Barbarian's DR?)
13. Does the Bless Weapon spell (Pal 1) bypass any amount of DR on an evil creature? (You could read it as either: Negates all DR on any evil creature or Negates DR as if it was a +1 weapon but only against evil creatures.)
14. Can you really use the Violent Thrust option of the TeleKinessis spell to throw hundreds of weapons? (Normal examples are Shuriken or Daggers. As I recall, doing it with daggers would result in 250 attacks at d4 damage each.)
15. Do Touch Attacks = weapons for all purposes? (One example - can you Coup de grace with a Touch Attack?)
16. Timestop. (What can and can't be done - what will work and what won't? If hasted, do you get additional partial actions?)
17. Imprved Unarmed Attack and Monk's Unarmed Attacks. (Are they weapons or not? More accurately, when exactly do they counts as weapons and wehn do they not? Can you Coup de Grace with an Improved Unarmed Attack?)
18. Can you use a "non-trip" weapon to initiate a trip attack?
19. Paladin's Mount/Blackguurd's Servnae and Familiars Natural AC Improvement. (Do all these work the same way? Does the Nat AC actually get better, or is the class bonus considered like a Nat Ac bonus that does not stack?)
20. For an Empowered spell like Ray of Enfeeblement is the equation (1d6)*1.5+2/CL or is it (1d6+2/CL)*1.5?
21. If you use Empower twice, do you have to apply each Empower separately and round at each step? (For example if you cast a Double Empowered Cat's Grace and roll a result of 5, is the final value 10 (5 + 2.5 + 2.5) or 9 (5 + 2 + 2).
22. If you Empower a spell like Shocking Grasp or Cure Light Wounds, do you multiple just the die value by 1.5 or the total (d8 + caster level) by 1.5?
23. Do tiny creatures get an AoO on creatures that pass through their square? (Their reach is 0')
24. Does Two-Weapon Fighting work with thrown melee weapons?
25. Do you get an AoO if you took Total Defense?
26. Does burst damage replace or stack?
27. Can you cleave off a mirror image?
28. Combat Reflexes - one AoO per opponent or per opportunity?
29. Readymongering: 5' steps? L-shaped runs and charges?
30. Boccob's Blessed Book and "freely." (What does "freely" mean, exactly?)
31. How does Extend Spell with spells that have effects that vary from round to round? (Like Heat Metal)
And, as a bonus, here's few items that may be clear in the rules but many folks think should be changed, perhaps:
Claws of the Vampire and how much it heals.
Speed Armor
Harm
Bladed Gauntlets' crit being 19-20x2.
+1 HD => +1 ECL
I'm not really in favor of including these items since I think the list might be too hard to define and get too long, but I included it for Spikey
P.S. Spikey - I'm looking for items for which reasonable minds may disagree on what the rules say.
It would probably be useful to summarize the main points on each side at some point, but I'd like to get the list first. Then we could make up a handy little list for one to have that would state the major disputed rule, brief arguments on both sides, and Skip's and other designers' opinions. In a way, we would be producing a list of issues for 4th edition
Perhaps if we can really get a good list together we could post it as a *.pdf document someplace. I think it has potential.
I am considering the final form that this list will take.
What do you guys thinks of this:
The question.
The issue(s).
What the rules do and don't say.
My Advice (Hey, when you put in the work, you get to g\be a little self-indulgent) This is my advice on the "best" ruling to make - based on rules, sommon sense, and what seems to me to be the "best" ruling.
Sage Advice.
Other D&D Designers Statement of Original Intent.
I intend for each question to be formatted in the same way. I hope to gather up Sage and other game diesigners' input (Monte, etc.) and then bundle it all up in a free PDF that we get posted on several sites as a reference for DMs and Players.
Last edited:
), but rather that we understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposing sides and then let the various DMs make an informed decision as to which one to use based on his/her players and campaign.
